What would we settle for?

What would we settle for?

This is a discussion on What would we settle for? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Okay... I KNOW this is going to start a battle... it's okay, I can take it. I want to state first off... I am no ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    What would we settle for?

    Okay... I KNOW this is going to start a battle... it's okay, I can take it.

    I want to state first off... I am no longer a hunter... I don't care about hunting anymore, the 2nd is not about hunting. I believe in the right to self defense with firearms. But the 2nd is NOT about self defense alone. I believe the 2nd IS designed to give people a means with which to defend against a tyrannical government.

    Second statement... In Iowa, in order to purchase a handgun, you must have a "permit to acquire pistols or revolvers". It costs $5.00 for one year, you get it at the Sheriff's office. The Sheriff puts your name through the NICS system and mails you the permit (which, in effect, is your "waiting period." Although, you can conceivably get it the same day, but it isn't valid until 3 days from application).

    What if... instead of a "permit to acquire pistols or revolvers," it was a "Permit to Acquire Firearms" and it was good nationally. No more than a $5 or $10 fee.

    If you are purchasing from a private party, they must see this permit in order to sell the firearm to you legally. If you are purchasing from a FFL, you still have to fill out the form, but no NICS check is required.

    There is no limit to the number of firearms you could purchase from one seller, or from multiple sellers... there is no requirement that the purchase must be done in your state, it is good nationally...

    If you purchase a firearm that is illegal to own in your state of residence, you are the law breaker, the onus is on you...

    You may transport the firearms you purchase to your home state, without restriction (other than unloaded and in a box or case) through any state, out of your reach in the vehicle you are transporting them in. As long as you have a bill of sale from the seller(s).

    If you should fall under the label of "prohibited person" during the term of your permit to purchase, you will be notified by registered mail to turn in your permit to the nearest law enforcement facility within 10 days (by mail, if you wish. If you want proof that you turned it in, you must do it with a certified or registered letter).

    There is no record of how many firearms you have... there is no record of whether you sold the firearms you purchased, or lost them in a boating accident, or whether you purchased any firearms or not, unless you buy from a FFL, and the sale was recorded on the form.

    This, like all the other laws currently proposed, would not stop criminals from getting guns. This, like all the other laws currently proposed, would not stop tragedies like Newtown from happening. It would assure the antis that only law abiding citizens are purchasing firearms, just as well as the laws that exist now do (read: Not at all).

    It would not infringe, any more than the laws do now, and would allow for interstate purchase and transportation of firearms.

    It might make them feel as though they accomplished their need to "do something."

    Okay... let me have it...

    As far as I'm concerned this is the very maximum infringement I would accept... Please, blow holes in it.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Ksgunner's Avatar
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    Before to long I believe we will need a permit to poop!
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Alex_C's Avatar
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    I would "settle" for my rights to be infringed upon no further and for those who seek to trespass upon them and therefore ignore the Constitution to be tried for treason against the United States of America.

    Furthermore, I would promote the recognition of the absolute nature of the Second Amendment and the annulment of all existing laws which infringe upon the God-given rights of free men to bear arms.

    I would support no proposition that would impose a tax (be it $10, $5 or 1 cent) in order to "qualify" for a right that is inherently mine as a human being.
    British by birth. American by choice.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksgunner View Post
    Before to long I believe we will need a permit to poop!
    You already do... For the most part...

    If you have a toilet in your home you either pay the city for the sewage treatment, or if you have a septic system, it was "inspected" at some point. If you do as the bears do, in many states you are expected (in some cases, by law) to "pack it out".

    Now, as far as purchasing firearms, if you do it exclusively through F2F transactions, you can rely on your 2A rights and no fees... In just about every other legal sale/purchase, you are paying (directly or indirectly) for a NICS check on every sale anyway.

    Somebody else?
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_C View Post
    I would "settle" for my rights to be infringed upon no further and for those who seek to trespass upon them and therefore ignore the Constitution to be tried for treason against the United States of America.

    Furthermore, I would promote the recognition of the absolute nature of the Second Amendment and the annulment of all existing laws which infringe upon the God-given rights of free men to bear arms.

    I would support no proposition that would impose a tax (be it $10, $5 or 1 cent) in order to "qualify" for a right that is inherently mine as a human being.

    You already pay such a tax on every new firearm you purchase, unless you buy previously owned firearms from private parties exclusively... and, you pay the same tax on all ammunition (and components, if you reload).

    I agree, in an ideal world, the 2A should be enough... facts belie the truth, unfortunately.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    This seems to me it`s All about Money AND Power. After they take our money for permits,licenses etc. then they want the power to revoke and cherry pick what we are "Allowed" to own. There Needs to be a New Revolution in America to Stop this Big Gov`t steamroller!. What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" do they not understand?.
    Ghost1958 and airslot like this.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I don't believe in a fee to exercise a right. The background check should be paid for by the government, and if you pass you should be allowed to carry it nation wide, concealed or otherwise.

    The fees should come from the profits made in prisons and jails from the sale of commissary to inmates, and, money should be diverted from welfare checks as a tax they pay for not contributing to society.

    Or, instead of sending 65 Billion to Syria or Billions in F-16 fighters to Egypt, put it in our system to pay for checks and training.
    gasmitty, oneshot and bmcgilvray like this.
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    I just want to point out that you accept the concept of a permit. All you are discussing is how many times you are spanked and not whether spanking is justified. We do not have permits here in Florida or will we accept them so I have to reject your post completely as that of someone who accepts gun control but just wants to streamline how it is administered. If more gun owners think like this we are in trouble. :)
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    How about if you have a valid concealed carry permit you don't need to pay for a purchase permit or a background check. You're already documented OK.
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Is Obama and his liberal band of idiots going to require the Syrian rebels buy a permit and pass a background check before he GIVES them US Military firearms?
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Alex_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    You already pay such a tax on every new firearm you purchase, unless you buy previously owned firearms from private parties exclusively... and, you pay the same tax on all ammunition (and components, if you reload).
    I pay sales tax. That's not the same as paying a fee in order to make the purchase in the first place.

    What's next? Pay $5 in order for a permit to exercise my religion as a choose? $10 to be able to say whatever I want?

    What you are proposing is that I need to pay money to an entity in exchange for a right that is actually God-given. The only payment that I will make for my basic human right to bear arms is the one I make with my life.
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    How about if you have a valid concealed carry permit you don't need to pay for a purchase permit or a background check. You're already documented OK.
    Don't they already have that in Florida?
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Anglo View Post
    This seems to me it`s All about Money AND Power. After they take our money for permits,licenses etc. then they want the power to revoke and cherry pick what we are "Allowed" to own. There Needs to be a New Revolution in America to Stop this Big Gov`t steamroller!. What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" do they not understand?.
    Yes, it's all about money and power... always has been. Revocation and cherry picking would only be allowed within the current confines of the current NICS check... Which you go through anyway... but would now not be required but once a year instead of EVERY FFL purchase you make. Unfortunately, SCOTUS has already said that the 2nd allows for some restriction... This is less restriction than we are currently under.

    C'mon! I really want to see why this won't work... why it's bad... I know about the 2nd... I believe in it with all my heart... Right now we are under more restrictions for legal purchases than what I propose ...

    Other laws that have been proposed suggest more restrictions... more infringements... This is less infringement, more expansion of the right to purchase... and so much so that it would never get voted for... because as you say, it's all about money and power... But, it does give them "background checks on every sale." With no scheme for registration available to them, with no record of who has which guns, with no paper trail...

    You are already a law abiding citizen who has purchased guns. Every purchase you make probably has an NICS check involved... for which you pay (directly or indirectly). Unless all your purchases are F2F of used (or at least previously owned) firearms.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_C View Post
    I pay sales tax. That's not the same as paying a fee in order to make the purchase in the first place.

    What's next? Pay $5 in order for a permit to exercise my religion as a choose? $10 to be able to say whatever I want?

    What you are proposing is that I need to pay money to an entity in exchange for a right that is actually God-given. The only payment that I will make for my basic human right to bear arms is the one I make with my life.
    You pay an excise tax on all new firearms and all ammunition and most components. You pay directly or indirectly for the hassle of filling out the form at any FFL... they ain't keeping all that paperwork for free... it's in the sales price.

    I agree that the right is God given/natural... but you are already going through "the entity" in exchange for exercising your right every time you purchase a firearm from a FFL...
    Unless all your purchases are F2F, you are already subjecting your rights to exactly the same system... At least with this idea you would only have to do so once a year.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Oak, To be honest, I just want to be left alone. We have given so much already, why do we need to give more. How much more proof do we have to give. The law abiding are just that, law abiding, the criminals are just that, criminals. What is being proposed does nothing to stop crime and wont save lives. Until someone comes up with that answer Its not negotiable...
    WHEC724, phreddy, Alex_C and 5 others like this.
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