2A - Quick read of some solid thoughts - Why a 2A?

2A - Quick read of some solid thoughts - Why a 2A?

This is a discussion on 2A - Quick read of some solid thoughts - Why a 2A? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hat Tip Ace of Spades HQ Den Beste: Hooray for the Second Amendment! Steven Den Beste (I am assuming by email since no link to ...

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    2A - Quick read of some solid thoughts - Why a 2A?

    Hat Tip Ace of Spades HQ
    Den Beste: Hooray for the Second Amendment!
    Steven Den Beste (I am assuming by email since no link to a blog was apparent).
    May 5, 2013?

    Note: Text in full as was displayed at Ace of Spades HQ - Assume it was an email to the poster.


    Den Beste (sent by email?): Hooray for the Second Amendment!

    Steven Den Beste sent the following, which I am pleased to publish here for ya'll.

    Let's talk about the Third Amendment for a moment. Remember that one? Probably not; in this day and age it's something of a Constitutional joke. "No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

    Remember now? The Bill of Rights which passed Congress had twelve clauses, and ten of them were almost immediately ratified by the states. Amendment Three was one of those. Why did they bother?

    It's because memory of the Revolution was still current. It was only a few years after the Revolution succeeded, remember, and memory of British tyranny was still fresh. The British had done this, and the citizens of the nascent United States wanted to make sure their new government didn't.

    The reason the colonies revolted was because the King of England was viewed as having become a tyrant. Having fought a bloody war to become free of his tyranny, the founders wanted to make sure the new government they created did not in turn become tyranny. Trading one tyrant for another wasn't what they had in mind. So the Constitution contains layers of mechanisms to try to prevent tyranny. And the last and best of these is the Second Amendment.

    Remember how the shooting revolution began? The Battles of Lexington and Concord. Rebels in the Boston area had been stockpiling weapons, powder, and ammunition near Concord MA, and the British got wind of it and sent an armed column out from Boston to seize the stockpile. Superb espionage by rebel forces detected this, and word spread through the countryside for the militia (remember that word; it's important) which formed up and fought against the British force. The main battle was fought at Lexington MA, which repelled the British and caused them to retreat again back to Boston.

    The "militia" was all able bodied men in the area, who were to show up with their own rifles (or muskets). Weapons of that era varied quite a lot, and of course they were muzzle-loaded using black powder. It took a lot of training to use such a weapon effectively (especially rifles, which were much more difficult to load than muskets) and that's why it was desireable that the men have their own weapons. It was assumed they already knew how to use them.

    The earliest battles of the revolution were fought by such militia formations. Another was the Battle of Bunker Hill. It was only later that the Revolutionary Army was formed, and began training at Valley Forge.

    Having just won their revolution, in which privately owned firearms played such a critical role, and mindful of the potential for their new government to potentially become tyrannical, the purpose of the Second Amendment was to make sure that the people of the United States would have the means to rise in revolt once again, should it become necessary.

    That's what it's really about. It's not about hunting weapons; it's not about the "National Guard" (which isn't a militia). It's about everyday law-abiding citizens having the ability to resist a tyrannical government. And with that deterrent in place, we've managed 230 years without our government descending into tyranny (though it's come close).

    And that's why Progressives hate it. Deep down, progressives (i.e. socialists) are not populists. Deep down, progressives despise the majority of their fellow citizens, and don't trust them at all. They love America but hate most of the Americans. Progressives are entranced with the possibilities presented by a benevolent dictatorship. They ignore the peril, that it can mutate into a malevolent dictatorship because they believe in their own virtue. They're sure it won't happen if they're in charge. As to Democracy? It's a burden, a barrier; it gives the vote to all the rednecks and knuckle-draggers who have been mislead by the evil capitalists (remember the Doctrine of False Consciousness? Pernicious claptrap, that one, but it has a lot of currency on the left) and will resist the Progressive program even though it's Obviously the right thing to do.

    If only Progressives, as an enlightened elite, had the ability to impose their program on the rest of us, eventually we'd come around to their point of view. But that means they need dictatorial power, and Democracy prevents that.

    And the last and strongest barrier against the creation of a benevolent dictatorship by the Progressive enlightened elite is that damned Second Amendment, and all those firearms owned by the rednecks and knuckle-draggers.

    So let's be clear: Progressives don't fear guns in the hands of criminals, or not very much. It's not about school shootings, either. It's guns in the hands, and homes, of law abiding citizens that Progressives hate. Those are the guns they wish were gone; those are the guns they will try to eliminate if they can. Because those are the guns which stand in the way of them taking over.

    Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 12:42 PM

    Den Beste: Hooray for the Second Amendment!
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    Ex Member Array Randalls's Avatar
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    Yes, the people do and have the right to keep & bear arms.

    Yes, as we live in a modern society, certain restrictions need to be implace with regards to firearms.

    We need to find the best way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, those deemed mentally incompetant by a court, children, and ex-cons.

    How to best do that is up for debate.

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    That's what I keep telling everyone when the antis say that we don't need such and such firearms for hunting or self defense. The 2A is not about those things at all, it is so the regular citizens can guard against a tyranical government. Therefore, military style firearms are EXACTLY what the Founding Fathers meant for citizens to have.

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    Ex Member Array Randalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior1256 View Post
    That's what I keep telling everyone when the antis say that we don't need such and such firearms for hunting or self defense. The 2A is not about those things at all, it is so the regular citizens can guard against a tyranical government. Therefore, military style firearms are EXACTLY what the Founding Fathers meant for citizens to have.
    By that logic the American people should be able to own mortars, clamors, weaponized Anthrax and VX gas, for without such weapons they wouldn't stand a chance against the USG.

    And no, "arms" doesn't just mean "guns". It means a weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randalls View Post
    Yes, the people do and have the right to keep & bear arms.

    Yes, as we live in a modern society, certain restrictions need to be implace with regards to firearms.

    We need to find the best way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, those deemed mentally incompetant by a court, children, and ex-cons.

    How to best do that is up for debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randalls View Post
    By that logic the American people should be able to own mortars, clamors, weaponized Anthrax and VX gas, for without such weapons they wouldn't stand a chance against the USG.

    And no, "arms" doesn't just mean "guns". It means a weapon.
    You do realize this is a PRO-gun forum...right?
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    Don't feed the trolls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randalls View Post
    Yes, the people do and have the right to keep & bear arms.

    Yes, as we live in a modern society, certain restrictions need to be implace with regards to firearms.

    We need to find the best way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, those deemed mentally incompetant by a court, children, and ex-cons.

    How to best do that is up for debate.
    Shall not be infringed is not debatable........
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

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    I don't trust either side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the6shooter View Post
    I don't trust either side.
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    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randalls View Post
    By that logic the American people should be able to own mortars, clamors, weaponized Anthrax and VX gas, for without such weapons they wouldn't stand a chance against the USG...
    Yes, law abiding moral American people should be able to own anything they want because they will not do anything evil with it. Immoral people are the ones who commit evil acts while utilizing a weapon.

    Weapons are objects that will do nothing until a person utilizes them.

    Weapons are not evil but they might be used by an evil person to do evil things.
    Tzadik, ANGLICO, pmspaul and 3 others like this.
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    You know what. I spent more than two decades in the US Marine Corps (yes, you Air Farce guys and Saliors will say I am stupid for that.. LOL). I have been instructed well, and am Morally stable.......... I have trained LEO, and continue to do so (not for $$, but because it is my civic duty to give back).

    And the Department of Homeland Security thinks that I am the bad guy Terriorist they are stumbling around looking for?!? They need to get a clue................ I have never unsworn the many Oaths of Office that I have been sworn to, proudly fought for, and defended the weak in the USA and OCONUS!

    God Bless!

    Semper Fi!
    Last edited by ANGLICO; May 6th, 2013 at 10:53 AM.
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    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    You do realize this is a PRO-gun forum...right?
    Have to disagree...I read the forum title as "The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion"

    Now; while a great majority who participate here (myself included) are about as Pro 2A as one can get, I see no problem with
    someone coming in with a opposing viewpoint. I think it's healthy in that it aids many Pro 2A people in formulating a verbal defense when
    questioned by the anti's or intelligently defending the second amendment.

    Conversely, what is quite sad is seeing some Pro 2A people (too many IMO) attempt to defend their position and winding up looking like a
    gun toting whacko.

    I think Paul the apostle's advice applies in this case "Be prepared to give a defense for the faith that resides in you"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    You know what. I spent more than two decades in the US Marine Corps (yes, you Air Farce guys and Saliors will say I am stupid for that.. LOL). I have been instructed well, and am Morally stable.......... I have trained LEO, and continue to do so (not for $$, but because it is my civic duty to give back).

    And the Department of Homeland Security thinks that I am the bad guy Terriorist they are stumbling around looking for?!? They need to get a clue................ I have never unsworn the many Oaths of Office that I have been sworn to, and proudly fought for, and defended the weak in the USA and OCONUS!

    God Bless!

    Semper Fi!
    I never laugh at a twenty year vet, no matter what service.
    Hoganbeg and MasterGadgets like this.

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    here ya go

    Quote Originally Posted by Randalls View Post
    Yes, the people do and have the right to keep & bear arms.

    Yes, as we live in a modern society, certain restrictions need to be implace with regards to firearms.

    I have to point out the words "...shall not be infringed" one more time.

    We need to find the best way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, those deemed mentally incompetant by a court, children, and ex-cons.

    "We" meaning you, don't have to do anything in regards to my children. That is my job.

    Anyone who has been proven to be a danger to others has no reason to on the street in the populace at all. Lock 'em up or put 'em down. Stop letting the liberals turn the asylums inside out.

    A truly"ex con" can have his rights back as far as I'm concerned. Reformed is reformed. A second offender belongs lumped in my previous statement.


    How to best do that is up for debate

    See my statements above.
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    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    Yes, law abiding moral American people should be able to own anything they want because they will not do anything evil with it. Immoral people are the ones who commit evil acts while utilizing a weapon.

    Weapons are objects that will do nothing until a person utilizes them.

    Weapons are not evil but they might be used by an evil person to do evil things.
    Wow I hope you're just kidding.
    niks likes this.

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