Texas changes "intentionally displays" to "fails to conceal" effective 9/1/13

Texas changes "intentionally displays" to "fails to conceal" effective 9/1/13

This is a discussion on Texas changes "intentionally displays" to "fails to conceal" effective 9/1/13 within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Texas Legislature Online - 83(R) Text for SB 299 A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about ...

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Thread: Texas changes "intentionally displays" to "fails to conceal" effective 9/1/13

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Texas changes "intentionally displays" to "fails to conceal" effective 9/1/13

    Texas Legislature Online - 83(R) Text for SB 299

    A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder’s person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays xxx[fails to conceal]xxx the handgun
    in plain view of another person in a public place.
    I guess this eases up the potential of being busted for printing or having your cover ride up.

    I wonder how many prosecutions they have had over this?
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Backwards. They're changing the "fails to conceal" language to the more-lenient "intentionally displays" lingo.

    Sounds like a good move.

    Quote Originally Posted by From the bill text
    SB299 text: A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person ... and intentionally displays [fails to conceal ] the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place.
    * "Fails to conceal" is struck-out in the text, replaced with the "intentionally displays" language.
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    Senior Member Array JJVP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Texas Legislature Online - 83(R) Text for SB 299



    I guess this eases up the potential of being busted for printing or having your cover ride up.

    I wonder how many prosecutions they have had over this?
    Current law is "fails to conceal". New law is "intentionally displays"

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    Member Array diver1102's Avatar
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    I would think this change would make the law more strict. "Intentionally displays" means non-accidental display. "Fails to conceal" doesn't seem to care accidental or not. But I'm not a lawyer.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver1102 View Post
    I would think this change would make the law more strict. "Intentionally displays" means non-accidental display. "Fails to conceal" doesn't seem to care accidental or not.
    Disagree.

    • Out with the old wording: If I'm failing to conceal, that means that my shirt tails accidentally riding up could snag me with a criminal charge.

    • In with the new: But if it's required that I intentionally display (a la brandishing) or engage in utter lack of any attempt to conceal per the law, that means intent is demanded prior to any charges being leveled.


    Seems clear to me that this is a much higher standard, more-protective of the concealed carrier who is seen by another to be carrying unbeknownst to him, unintentionally printing, accidentally getting a gust of wind, etc.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    So basically they're giving leeway for accidental exposure of a concealed handgun but still making sure that intentional exposure (ie open carry) will land you in the joint (or shot).
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJB_17 View Post
    So basically they're giving leeway for accidental exposure of a concealed handgun but still making sure that intentional exposure (ie open carry) will land you in the joint (or shot).
    Yes, sounds like it. IIRC, TX is not an open-carry state. This is not an open-carry bill. It's merely relaxing the standard by refusing to criminalize "printing" like they're doing now.

    Open-carry and intentional, deliberate, unjustified brandishing/menacing are still verboten.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    This is a move in the right direction! I've always been worried about printing or getting made on my many trips to Houston.

    I don't as a rule O.C., but I've always wondered why TX, of all states, does not have O.C.? Does this go back to 'cowboy days' laws'? Not trying to be funny there, actually want to know.
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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    This is a move in the right direction! I've always been worried about printing or getting made on my many trips to Houston.

    I don't as a rule O.C., but I've always wondered why TX, of all states, does not have O.C.? Does this go back to 'cowboy days' laws'? Not trying to be funny there, actually want to know.
    The answer is actually pretty simple on the 'how' OC is illegal: the state constitution grants a right to keep and bear arms but also dictates"...the legislature shall have the power to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime." Well, with the writing of the Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon (UCW) laws in the PC they have done precisely that.

    On the "why" side, it is more complicated but overall my observation is that not a lot of people really care. Truth be told, if you polled random people in most states, even pro gun ones, many would likely believe that OC is illegal (even where it isn't). There have been clear cut OC legalization bills proposed in at least the past 3 legislative sessions (every other year) and all have quietly died in committee. Despite what you will read on forums like this one, that majority of Texans don't have any interest in changing the current laws and very few politicians want to touch it because the political risks vastly outweigh the potential returns.

    It never ceases to amaze me how severely incorrect many people's understanding of TX gun laws are, most people from other states seem to think that everyone walks around packing on their hip every day. In actuality, we were one of the last states that is currently shall issue become such, and the CHL system has only been around since the mid 90s. We also have arguably the most laborious and expensive process of getting a CHL of any shall issue state: 10 hour minimum class, prints, range qual, $150 fees plus class fee (usually about the same amount), and right now it is taking well over 8 weeks to get a permit even with a spotless record.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJB_17 View Post
    The answer is actually pretty simple on the 'how' OC is illegal: the state constitution grants a right to keep and bear arms but also dictates"...the legislature shall have the power to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime." Well, with the writing of the Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon (UCW) laws in the PC they have done precisely that.

    On the "why" side, it is more complicated but overall my observation is that not a lot of people really care. Truth be told, if you polled random people in most states, even pro gun ones, many would likely believe that OC is illegal (even where it isn't). There have been clear cut OC legalization bills proposed in at least the past 3 legislative sessions (every other year) and all have quietly died in committee. Despite what you will read on forums like this one, that majority of Texans don't have any interest in changing the current laws and very few politicians want to touch it because the political risks vastly outweigh the potential returns.

    It never ceases to amaze me how severely incorrect many people's understanding of TX gun laws are, most people from other states seem to think that everyone walks around packing on their hip every day. In actuality, we were one of the last states that is currently shall issue become such, and the CHL system has only been around since the mid 90s. We also have arguably the most laborious and expensive process of getting a CHL of any shall issue state: 10 hour minimum class, prints, range qual, $150 fees plus class fee (usually about the same amount), and right now it is taking well over 8 weeks to get a permit even with a spotless record.
    Thank you for the anwser and input. Everyone I know (except for possibly three people) all have either Fed, LEO or civilian CCW ability to carry. My CCW is recognized there also, so, birds of a feather..............

    Yes, I have noted that TX does require quite a bit of training (which I do think that training is good), even if you have a DD-214.

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Our State made it easy...... if the gun shows, tough... it's legal. They essentially made open carry legal for CC holders.... so if something even accidentally got totally exposed, it's not against the law and would not be illegal.
    Makes life simplier for everyone.
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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    Thank you for the anwser and input. Everyone I know (except for possibly three people) all have either Fed, LEO or civilian CCW ability to carry. My CCW is recognized there also, so, birds of a feather..............

    Yes, I have noted that TX does require quite a bit of training (which I do think that training is good), even if you have a DD-214.

    Semper Fi,
    Yes, there is a minimum of 10 hours training required from a DPS certified instructor (of which there are several on this forum), most courses are 10 hours but some are more (I have seen ads for 15 hour ones...no thanks). Unfortunately, there isn't a hard and fast curriculum dictated and the quality of instruction varies greatly. Personally, mine was terrible and my instructor was a sovereign citizen nut job (which is ironic considering his profession), my girlfriend's was bad too (her 'female oriented/female taught' class was really a husband and wife pair where the male did all the talking and really it was more talking down than anything else)...I really wish they would standardize the course material. When I come up for renewal in a few years if a class is still required I'm going to have it with a LEO or retired LEO.

    The only distinction being in the military or prior service (DD-214) makes is it cuts the filing fee.

    Last thing, TX at least unilaterally recognizes basically anyone's permit. Even if you're one of the 5 people who have a NYC permit you're good to go, just follow our TX specific laws (51% etc.)

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    Senior Member Array Smarshe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Disagree.

    • Out with the old wording: If I'm failing to conceal, that means that my shirt tails accidentally riding up could snag me with a criminal
    • In with the new: But if it's required that I intentionally display (a la brandishing) or engage in utter lack of any attempt to conceal per the law, that means intent is demanded prior to any charges being leveled.


    Seems clear to me that this is a much higher standard, more-protective of the concealed carrier who is seen by another to be carrying unbeknownst to him, unintentionally printing, accidentally getting a gust of wind, etc.
    Thank you. Intent is the key component.

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    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver1102 View Post
    I would think this change would make the law more strict. "Intentionally displays" means non-accidental display. "Fails to conceal" doesn't seem to care accidental or not. But I'm not a lawyer.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

    You're right..."intentionally" is more defined and definitive than "fail to conceal".

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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    You're right..."intentionally" is more defined and definitive than "fail to conceal".
    This kind of reminds me of the previous "while traveling" language regarding having a handgun in your car without a CHL. They changed it a couple years ago, but it used to say something along the lines of (paraphrasing) "you can carry a gun in your car without a CHL while traveling". Unfortunately, they didn't define what "traveling" meant and LE agencies had vastly varying ways of interpreting and enforcing it. For instance, some said it meant crossing x number of counties, others said any trip in a vehicle, some ignored it entirely, others arrested anyone caught with a gun no matter what.

    In 2007 they changed the law and made it clearly and well defined. Basically, you can carry concealed in your car (not on you) as long as you aren't a prohibited person, gang member, or committing any crime.

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