Have we already lost the registration battle

This is a discussion on Have we already lost the registration battle within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I need help on the gun registration battle. I don't believe the 4473 is destroyed. I don't believe the government destroys the results of the ...

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Thread: Have we already lost the registration battle

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Have we already lost the registration battle

    I need help on the gun registration battle.

    I don't believe the 4473 is destroyed.
    I don't believe the government destroys the results of the background check.
    I don't believe the 40% of gun sales are private sales number.

    What am I missing? Isn't Obama already registering a large % of gun sales. Granted, most of us bought some guns before Obama, but recent sales figures show a huge number of sales recently.

    Do we already have a registration without calling it that?

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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    The background check is not recorded. That has been verified over and over.
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    I was at a hearing for our local Gun Owner harassment bill AB 221. An Assemblyman opposing the bill said BATF personnel showed up at gun stores owned by two different constituents and compared their records for the past two years against his laptop. That don't sound "Kosher"

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    The background check is recorded. This has been verified over and over.

    OutWestSystems, you are new here so let me explain.

    In December of last year I was audited by the ATF. It wasn't just a standard audit, it was an NFA Audit which is pretty in depth.

    I was told that the info only went back 3 months on the NICS check. Later on in the day, (the audit took 8 hours) we looked at some of my 4473's. My AFT Agent had a list of NICS "verification" numbers that went back for the entire year of 2012. When I asked her how that was since they only "kept" them for 3 months, she flat out told me that that was what they were "supposed" to say.

    When a NICS check is done on a 4473, there is a verification number that one fills out. You had better believe that it is a registration number because whether it is legal or not it is being used as such.


    That NICS check goes into a database and any of that info can be searched simply be requesting the 4473, which has your name,adress,birthplace, date of birth, drivers license number, what type of gun you got, who manufactured it, what the serial number is and even what caliber...if they want to.

    As it is, they know right now what type of gun you got, and when you got it.

    If that isn't registration, then tell me what it is.
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The background check is recorded. This has been verified over and over.

    OutWestSystems, you are new here so let me explain.

    In December of last year I was audited by the ATF. It wasn't just a standard audit, it was an NFA Audit which is pretty in depth.

    I was told that the info only went back 3 months on the NICS check. Later on in the day, (the audit took 8 hours) we looked at some of my 4473's. My AFT Agent had a list of NICS "verification" numbers that went back for the entire year of 2012. When I asked her how that was since they only "kept" them for 3 months, she flat out told me that that was what they were "supposed" to say.

    .
    You should have reported the violation of federal law. Before Jul 2004 the records of NCIS checks were allowed to be kept for 3 months. After Jul of 2004 the records MUST be destroyed within 24 hours of notification to the dealer.

    That is the law. If someone isn't doing it the way the are suppose to, you should report it. Now if they had you on their radar and a warrant, they could have been recording the numbers for a year to try to prove a case, but that would be the only legal way they could have done it.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    You should have reported the violation of federal law. Before Jul 2004 the records of NCIS checks were allowed to be kept for 3 months. After Jul of 2004 the records MUST be destroyed within 24 hours of notification to the dealer.

    That is the law. If someone isn't doing it the way the are suppose to, you should report it. Now if they had you on their radar and a warrant, they could have been recording the numbers for a year to try to prove a case, but that would be the only legal way they could have done it.
    Reporting it is fine. Reporting it will get it reported.

    Meanwhile, the point remains: it's done; it's logged; it's tracked; it's "out there" and available for those who capture it.

    The whole 2A demands no infringement, too, yet look at the pile of excrement we've allowed to build up at all levels (fed, state, county, local).

    And then there are other little niceties, like the state of Missouri passing along their CHL "registry" to the revenuers and others in the feds. This is only one we're aware of. It's almost a certainty there are others we aren't aware of, elsewhere. It only takes an enterprising anti-gunner mentality to thwart the will of the 2A. It's as easy as that.
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    You should have reported the violation of federal law
    To who? That idiot Holder? The one that runs guns to Mexico and gets away with it?

    You're kidding right?


    Before Jul 2004 the records of NCIS checks were allowed to be kept for 3 months. After Jul of 2004 the records MUST be destroyed within 24 hours of notification to the dealer.

    Yeah we know how its supposed to work. How it actually works are two different things.

    Just like the U.S.Constitution says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. How's that working out for us?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    To who? That idiot Holder? The one that runs guns to Mexico and gets away with it?

    You're kidding right?





    Yeah we know how its supposed to work. How it actually works are two different things.

    Just like the U.S.Constitution says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. How's that working out for us?
    Let's see, you're supposed to report a violation of the rules by an organization that only prosecutes what, .4% of the criminal activity perpetrated by criminals attempting to purchase firearms illegally.

    And they're gonna prosecute their own people for doing what they're told to do, by the criminal bosses that run guns to Mexico?

    Maybe you should move this thread to "off topic AND HUMOR" ... ' Cause that there is funny, don't care who you are!
    Yeah, I got tapatalk, too. So what?
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Here we have have proof of people not following the law and instead of doing something about it, you complain and say that nothing will be done. If you have proof that they are not following the law, report it, tell the news, tell everyone. Report it to your representatives and demand they do something about it. If you allow them to knowingly break the law and don't try to do something, you are not part of the solution but part of the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    And then there are other little niceties, like the state of Missouri passing along their CHL "registry" to the revenuers and others in the feds. This is only one we're aware of. It's almost a certainty there are others we aren't aware of, elsewhere. It only takes an enterprising anti-gunner mentality to thwart the will of the 2A. It's as easy as that.
    You do realize that Governor Jay Nixon is in very hot water, legally and politically, over him violating Missouri's Constitution that prohibits the state of Missouri from complying with Real ID. I wouldn't be too surprised that Mr. Nixon is impeached and sent to prison. Missouri Legislature was so upset about the entire thing they fast tracked the amendment nullifying federal firearm laws and only supplied the Department of Revenue enough money to operate for 8 months. If the Department of Revenue continues to violate Missouri's Constitution their funds for the last 4 months are taken away. This means that there won't be any license plates or drivers licenses, which I believe is a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Here we have have proof of people not following the law and instead of doing something about it, you complain and say that nothing will be done. If you have proof that they are not following the law, report it, tell the news, tell everyone. Report it to your representatives and demand they do something about it. If you allow them to knowingly break the law and don't try to do something, you are not part of the solution but part of the problem.
    Preach it!!
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePatriot1776 View Post
    You do realize that Governor Jay Nixon is in very hot water, legally and politically, over him violating Missouri's Constitution that prohibits the state of Missouri from complying with Real ID. I wouldn't be too surprised that Mr. Nixon is impeached and sent to prison. Missouri Legislature was so upset about the entire thing they fast tracked the amendment nullifying federal firearm laws and only supplied the Department of Revenue enough money to operate for 8 months. If the Department of Revenue continues to violate Missouri's Constitution their funds for the last 4 months are taken away. This means that there won't be any license plates or drivers licenses, which I believe is a good thing.
    oops, quoted the wrong one.


    Yeah, I got tapatalk, too. So what?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    The background check is not recorded. That has been verified over and over.
    Best laugh I've had all day.

    Not recorded? Kinda; like Holder wanting to speak "off the record"

    I brought this up some month ago concerning registration.
    The Fed knows where the guns are and who owns them..that is they know the law abiding citizens who own them.
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Here we have have proof of people not following the law and instead of doing something about it, you complain and say that nothing will be done. If you have proof that they are not following the law, report it, tell the news, tell everyone. Report it to your representatives and demand they do something about it. If you allow them to knowingly break the law and don't try to do something, you are not part of the solution but part of the problem.
    Hey, I happen to like Hot Guns. I'd hate for him to be the first one from DC to disappear, under the auspices of the NDAA.

    THERE, that's the one I meant to quote.

    Yeah, I got tapatalk, too. So what?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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