News discussion I'm in, help!

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    News discussion I'm in, help!

    This news discussion is in reference to a 25 year old female who was gunned down IN THE BACK during an armed robbery. There are a few "intelligent" people participating. Anybody want to back me up? Registration required.

    http://www.wvec.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1113

    The news:

    Articles:

    http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/....3832d7b0.html

    http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/....2f2c419d.html

    http://www.wvec.com/news/vabeach/sto....2d18e761.html

    Video:

    http://www.wvec.com/sharedcontent/Vi...01334&catId=44

    http://www.wvec.com/sharedcontent/Vi...02315&catId=44

    The discussion:

    paramedic70002
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:21 am Post subject: Hilltop murder

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    It amazes me that the news media shows "experts" saying the usual lame advice of "give them what they want", "use a personal alarm", be aware".
    that poor young lady probably did all of that, but still she is dead. Here's some advice that's not so politically correct, however it is the best advice on the market: If someone uses a deadly weapon to rob you, be prepared with a firearm, a concealed handgun permit, self defense training, and the willingness to survive.
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    Snookems
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Hilltop murder

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    If someone uses a deadly weapon to rob you, be prepared with a firearm, a concealed handgun permit, self defense training, and the willingness to survive.






    I'm not going to always live in fear everytime I step out of my house to go here and there. Heck if someone robs me they won't get much. I never have any cash on me and if I do its usually a couple of bucks and some loose change. Another thing whats the law about carrying a concealed weapon with you? I was told if someone robs your home and you kill them while their in your home you can be charged with murder. But if their outside your home then you won't be charged. I'm not sure who told me this but it sounds quite stupid indeed. Here you can't even protect yourself in your own home. I doubt you can shoot someone in a parking lot without being charged with a crime. Just the same I prefer not to own a gun.





    ole snooks
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    msllbl
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Hilltop murder

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    Snookems wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    If someone uses a deadly weapon to rob you, be prepared with a firearm, a concealed handgun permit, self defense training, and the willingness to survive.






    I'm not going to always live in fear everytime I step out of my house to go here and there. Heck if someone robs me they won't get much. I never have any cash on me and if I do its usually a couple of bucks and some loose change. Another thing whats the law about carrying a concealed weapon with you? I was told if someone robs your home and you kill them while their in your home you can be charged with murder. But if their outside your home then you won't be charged. I'm not sure who told me this but it sounds quite stupid indeed. Here you can't even protect yourself in your own home. I doubt you can shoot someone in a parking lot without being charged with a crime. Just the same I prefer not to own a gun.





    ole snooks


    Snook,
    It is the other way around. If they are in your home bang away!!! If they are outside your home you can get in trouble. The laws about firing a firearm inside city limits is a tough one. You have to be in some sort of peril or think your life is in danger ie... he is pointing a gun at you and you think he/she will fire at you.

    As for carrying a concealed weapon. You absolutely MUST have a permit or you can be charged. Most folks don't get permits but if you are caught woe unto you. There are also restrictions on where you can go, as in types of establishments, with a concealed weapon. Banks and anywhere that serves alchohol, schools to name a few.

    I agree with you though, that you cannot live in fear. Just try to be as safe as you can make yourself by parking in busy areas with lots of light and take someone with you if you can. My wife and I talked about the murder just last night. I hope they catch that piece of *****!!! Be safe out there all.

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    pappy62
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:12 am Post subject:

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    I think the underlying thought paramedic70002 was trying make was, the philosophy of just give the criminal what he wants and you should be fine is pretty lame. I do not know who came up with that philosophy but I have always despised it. If you stand up to criminals there tends to be less of them in my opinion. Many criminals only exist because they know they stand a good chance of getting away with the crime, or at most they spend a few months in jail going over their mistakes with others to try to become better criminals.

    I like how you hear about neighbors banding together to take back their neighborhoods. Well if they would have stood together in the beginning they would not be in the position they are in now.


    It is better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.
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    tjsinger
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Hilltop murder

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    msllbl wrote:
    My wife and I talked about the murder just last night. I hope they catch that piece of *****!!! Be safe out there all.


    From what I've heard, they DID catch him, and by using the GPS system on the cell phone that he stole from his victim.

    Boy, am I glad that there is a GPS on my cell phone! When we bought new ones a while back, we were told it was the law that new cell phones must have it in them. Cool, huh?

    Just sorry that this young lady had to die. And for what? It's horrible. I can say this, I will be doing all my Christmas shopping during the day! (Maybe that will help, who knows. Crazy people are out during the day, too...)

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    jas72
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:07 am Post subject:

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    pappy62 wrote:
    I think the underlying thought paramedic70002 was trying make was, the philosophy of just give the criminal what he wants and you should be fine is pretty lame. I do not know who came up with that philosophy but I have always despised it.


    I think the reasoning is that the criminal wants only your money, jewelry, car, whatever, and is not looking to kill you. If criminals wanted you dead in the first place, you'd just be shot first thing, and then they'd take whatever it is they wanted. Most of them probably realize that most people don't want to be killed so the use of a firearm is an intimidation factor to get you to cooperate.
    If you fight back, you may get shot unintentionally, or intentionally. It doesn't really matter. Dead is dead. There may be a chance that the perp will just give up and run away to rob a less aggressive victim, but that's risky to my mind.
    Sure, I'd like to think I'm as macho as the next guy, and could fight back, and it would p*ss me off to be robbed at gun point, but I don't own anything I'd be willing to give my life for. I know I'd certainly hate to lose a loved one to a carjacker for example. Cars and "things" can be replaced easily. Not so a loved one.

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    pappy62
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:41 am Post subject:

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    jas72 wrote:
    pappy62 wrote:
    I think the underlying thought paramedic70002 was trying make was, the philosophy of just give the criminal what he wants and you should be fine is pretty lame. I do not know who came up with that philosophy but I have always despised it.


    I think the reasoning is that the criminal wants only your money, jewelry, car, whatever, and is not looking to kill you. If criminals wanted you dead in the first place, you'd just be shot first thing, and then they'd take whatever it is they wanted. Most of them probably realize that most people don't want to be killed so the use of a firearm is an intimidation factor to get you to cooperate.
    If you fight back, you may get shot unintentionally, or intentionally. It doesn't really matter. Dead is dead. There may be a chance that the perp will just give up and run away to rob a less aggressive victim, but that's risky to my mind.
    Sure, I'd like to think I'm as macho as the next guy, and could fight back, and it would p*ss me off to be robbed at gun point, but I don't own anything I'd be willing to give my life for. I know I'd certainly hate to lose a loved one to a carjacker for example. Cars and "things" can be replaced easily. Not so a loved one.



    There is sense in giving up items vice your life but what does that get you down the road? If I go out to rob someone and I get away without any resistance then I am apt to try it again, right? Someday I will get to the little old lady who refuses to give up her SS check and during the trial I simply say, 'She should have just given it to me and she will still be alive, so it is her fault I killed her.'

    Either way, we as a society are taking the risk. If lives are more important than 'things' then cops would only have a Homicide Department. Why would we risk a cop's life going after a thief?
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    Buck Naked
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:37 am Post subject:

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    I tend to agree with the concept that people would probably think twice about robbing you if they knew that the majority of the population is armed. However, who's to say that in the heat of the moment that one would have the correct mindset to use the weapon correctly in self-defense?

    The only thing that keeps me from getting my CWP and carrying my gun is my 5-year-old. Something could happen and she could get hurt. If your gun should happen to fall out of your hand, it can be used against you.

    If someone wants your car, purse, phone, or whatever bad enough, they will get it. Alarms and locks will not deter them, and putting up resistance may not either. I think that the best defense is a good offense. Put on a show of force (wear your gun in a holster), and maybe they'll think twice.
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    jas72
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:41 am Post subject:

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    pappy62 wrote:
    There is sense in giving up items vice your life but what does that get you down the road?


    Well, for one, you get to live and by more "stuff".


    pappy62 wrote:
    If lives are more important than 'things' then cops would only have a Homicide Department. Why would we risk a cop's life going after a thief?


    A cop's life is not always in danger in the pursuit of a thief. A cop chasing after a purse-snatcher is probably not in mortal danger. If the thief wants to shoot it out with a cop, I'm betting the cop has more training and is a better shot. At the point when the shooting begins, it becomes a matter of self-defense.

    I would not feel good if a cop gave his or her life pursuing a thief who had just carjacked me, any more than I'd feel good if my loved one were killed by resisting said carjacking. I just know that for me, I'd give up any wordly possession to continue living.

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    zob
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject:

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    Listening to that advice is a sure way to quick death for innocent people who might otherwise have a chance of survival.

    As a hotel General Manager, I've been through extensive safety procedural training, including a full day of classroom training by a law enforcement officer last month. Statistics are undeniably vastly in favor of a clerk's survival who is being robbed if they simply hand over the money and do not resist in any way. To state anything else sounds "macho" but it's also foolhardy. Someone keeping a gun behind a front desk at a hotel or behind the teller station at a bank increases the chances exponentially of an innocent person getting wounded or killed. Most robbers want one thing: the money. It's just plain foolish for someone to risk their life by potentially turning one of those robbers into a panic murderer also. Money can be replaced; a life cannot.

    Last edited by zob on Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:49 am; edited 3 times in total

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    pappy62
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    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject:

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    zob wrote:
    pappy62 wrote:
    I think the underlying thought paramedic70002 was trying make was, the philosophy of just give the criminal what he wants and you should be fine is pretty lame. I do not know who came up with that philosophy but I have always despised it. If you stand up to criminals there tends to be less of them in my opinion.


    Listening to this advice is a sure way to quick death for innocent people who might otherwise have a chance of survival.

    As a hotel Geneeral Manager, I've been through extensive` safety procedural training, including a full day of classroom training by a law enforcement office last month. Statistics are undeniably vastly in favor of a clerk being robbed if they simply hand over the money to a robber and do not resist in any way. To state anything else sounds "macho" but it's also foolhardy. Someone keeping a gun behind a front desk at a hotel or behind the teller station at a bank increases the chances expnentially of an innocent person getting wounded or killed. Most robbers want one thing: the money. An extremely small percent of robbers are also muderers, and it's just plain foolish for someone to risk their life by potentially turning one of those robbers into a panic murderer also.


    I fully agree that if you decide to stand up to a criminal, you should be well trained to do so!

    I do not carry a weapon for two reasons; One, I would most likely want to use it for Dumb A$$ drivers first! Second, criminals usually look for easy targets and I tried my best not to look like an easy target.

    But I tell you, On 9-11, I wish some folks on those planes carried a weapon or two. There have been many times that innocent lives would have been and have been saved by some citizen who carried a weapon.

    Since we cannot go through all the what-ifs… How many times should you allow a thief to steal your hard earned assets or threaten your life before one of you is martyred for the cause?
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    Starbux1
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    Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject:

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    The off-duty Portsmouth Police officer who shot and killed the punk who tried to carjack him at gunpoint is my hero. He probably prevented that piece of human garbage from killing some innocent and productive member of society, such as this poor young woman - in addition to saving the taxpayers untold thousands of dollars!

    If more qualified folks who were CWP holders offed a few of these thugs, they would think twice.
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    jas72
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    Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:52 am Post subject:

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    Starbux1 wrote:
    If more qualified folks who were CWP holders offed a few of these thugs, they would think twice.


    I think that's why the series of Death Wish movies starring Charles Bronson was such a hit. People were actually cheering when some of the punks got theirs. But then again, most of us aren't Charles Bronson, either.

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    pappy62
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    Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject:

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    Starbux1 wrote:
    The off-duty Portsmouth Police officer who shot and killed the punk who tried to carjack him at gunpoint is my hero. He probably prevented that piece of human garbage from killing some innocent and productive member of society, such as this poor young woman - in addition to saving the taxpayers untold thousands of dollars!

    If more qualified folks who were CWP holders offed a few of these thugs, they would think twice.


    Just when I thought I could not possibly have any more respect for you... Then you come out with something like this and then... {Just a minute; Someone chopping onions out there!}
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    Snookems
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    Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Hilltop murder

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    msllbl wrote:
    Snookems wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    If someone uses a deadly weapon to rob you, be prepared with a firearm, a concealed handgun permit, self defense training, and the willingness to survive.






    I'm not going to always live in fear everytime I step out of my house to go here and there. Heck if someone robs me they won't get much. I never have any cash on me and if I do its usually a couple of bucks and some loose change. Another thing whats the law about carrying a concealed weapon with you? I was told if someone robs your home and you kill them while their in your home you can be charged with murder. But if their outside your home then you won't be charged. I'm not sure who told me this but it sounds quite stupid indeed. Here you can't even protect yourself in your own home. I doubt you can shoot someone in a parking lot without being charged with a crime. Just the same I prefer not to own a gun.





    ole snooks


    Snook,


    I agree with you though, that you cannot live in fear. Just try to be as safe as you can make yourself by parking in busy areas with lots of light and take someone with you if you can. My wife and I talked about the murder just last night. I hope they catch that piece of *****!!! Be safe out there all.




    Believe me I'm always careful when I go to any store. You just don't know when your facing the barrel of a gun. If its late at night I try to get my husband to go with me but if he's not with me I try to park in areas where its lighted. Did you hear about that women who got robbed in broad daylight? this happend some years ago. This women was leaving a store and this man was trying to rob her and don't you know people saw the altercation but did nothing to help in any way shape or form. They just stood there like it was entertainment. This was actually on the news. I know not everyone but their are a select few who do nothing in the way of helping others in times of despair. If I saw something like this I would be calling the police just as it was happening. Just two weeks ago this drunk driver hit me from behind. Lucky I got his license plate # because I already knew he was going to leave. Why because he never got out of the car and he was slurring his words. When I asked him to call the police he just gave me a little nod of the head. Well he got caught at his apartment and was arrested. But during the whole time not one person stopped to ask if I was alright. They just kept on going through the light like nothing never took place. I'm glad their was a witness to the accident. He was doing some landscaping at the gas station where I got my inspection done. Sorry to go off topic. But I just don't see how people can witness something and do nothing in the way of helping the victim.




    ole snooks
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    paramedic70002
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    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:48 am Post subject:

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    "I'm not going to always live in fear..."

    Me neither, however I choose to live in a couple of other states, reality and preparation. Same reason I have insurance, a spare tire, and a fire extinguisher. And since I'm always armed, what do I have to be afraid of? Some no account punk? NOT!

    "I was told if someone robs your home and you kill them while their in your home you can be charged with murder..."

    Location has nothing to do with it. The standard is whether the bad guy had ability, opportunity, and intent. Armed robbery and home invasions usually satisfy that requirement. Virginia does, however, require you to retreat from a threat, which is why we need "Castle Doctrine." No one should be required to retreat from where they are lawfully allowed to be. The young lady that was killed was probably retreating. That's why she was shot in the back.

    "I doubt you can shoot someone in a parking lot without being charged with a crime."

    You'd be surprised how many citizen involved shootings never get reported. The main stream media is a business. Their business is selling sensationalism. Good-guy shootings don't fit the bill.

    "Most folks don't get permits..."

    Virginia being a "shall issue" state, I doubt this. Very few citizens are disqualified. Of course in progressive states like Vermont and Alaska, citizens are not required to get a permit. The governments in those states actually TRUST their citizens. What a concept!

    "There are also restrictions on where you can go...with a concealed weapon. Banks and anywhere that serves alchohol, schools to name a few."

    Nope. Banks OK. Schools OK as long as you stay in your car. Restaurants that serve alcohol (there are no "bars" in VA, all "bars" are licensed as restaurants and must balance their alcohol sales against food sales), CHP holders just open carry. This silly law is really unique to VA. Several other states allow CHP in restaurants serving alcohol with no problems. Private property, such as banks, that display a "gunbusters" sticker, if you are caught (concealed means what?) with a sidearm you can be asked to leave, failing to leave is trespassing, but NOT a gun charge. Anybody care to guess which 2 banks get robbed the most? Anybody care to guess which 2 banks use "gunbusters" stickers? Right again! Now the bonus question: Why do banks that prohibit guns, get robbed more than the other banks?

    "Boy, am I glad that there is a GPS on my cell phone! When we bought new ones a while back, we were told it was the law that new cell phones must have it in them. Cool, huh?"

    Yes but if you are killed for your phone, you're still dead.

    "If criminals wanted you dead in the first place, you'd just be shot first thing, and then they'd take whatever it is they wanted."

    Not necessarily. Hard to search a dead/wounded victim for valuables. Much better to gain compliance, get what you want, then eliminate the witness. Then all the looky-loos only see a shadowy figure departing the area aas they call 911.

    Now there is evidence that the bad guy was on his third kidnapping attempt:
    http://content.hamptonroads.com/stor...4611&ran=51132
    And we know that he was a career thief. Most criminals go through an escalation process. Yesterday's shoplifter, today's kidnapper, tomorrow's cold blooded killer. I am not going to wager on the lottery of violence that my attacker has not got to the end of his criminal cycle.

    "If you fight back, you may get shot unintentionally, or intentionally. It doesn't really matter."

    And if you comply, you may still get shot. This young lady was shot in the back. Does that sound like she was resisting? If somebody has the audacity to commit an armed robbery against me, I would rather die fighting than shot in the back, or on my knees begging for my life like some punk. Actually, the bast defense, like it says in Karate Kid, is NO BE THERE. Practice situational awareness / threat avoidance, and be willing to be rude to strangers that approach you asking for the time. Distance is youy friend. A shootout avoided is highly preferred over a justifiable homicide any day of the week.

    "The only thing that keeps me from getting my CWP and carrying my gun is my 5-year-old. Something could happen and she could get hurt. If your gun should happen to fall out of your hand, it can be used against you."

    I can respect your decision. I, on the other hand, carry precisely because of my wife and sons. I take personal responsibility for their safety. Further, I want to make sure that I come home every day.

    "As a hotel Geneeral Manager, I've been through extensive` safety procedural training, including a full day of classroom training by a law enforcement office last month."

    Taught by a cop carrying a sidearm. When's the last time you saw a cop replace his sidearm with one of those silly personal alarms, or say something like, "Oh, I see you have a weapon! Never mind then, my mistake. Please proceed with your illegal activities. Excuse me."

    "But I tell you, On 9-11, I wish some folks on those planes carried a weapon or two. There have been many times that innocent lives would have been and have been saved by some citizen who carried a weapon."

    The timely application of lethal force would have provoked a more harmonious outcome. Yet a few unarmed patriots and heroes used improvised weapons were able to stop one airplane and 5 terrorists, knowing they would most likely still die, to say, "Screw you" to the islamo-fascists, and save other Americans. Catastrophic airliner decompressions only exist in the movies.

    There are three kinds of people in this world. Sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves. If you are a sheep, you better hope there are a few sheepdogs around, since wolves go everywhere.

    "They just stood there like it was entertainment."

    If you are attacked, you are on your own. Never a cop around, and the bystanders do just that, stand by.

    A little education never hurts:

    http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/atom.xml

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/

    http://www.keepandbeararms.com/

    http://www.vcdl.org/static/index.html

    http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/index.cfm?affID=uscca



    1. The best civil right? Freedom of the Gun! Without guns, we'd all be British.
    2. Why do we balk at letting adults have concealed weapons when it's OK to license teenagers for 4000 pound weapons at 60 MPH? 3
    . Guns kill people? Mine never have. Do you think I should return them for new ones?
    4. Why do I carry a gun? Because cops are too big! I can't afford bodyguards. I don't expect cops to protect me. I am responsibile for my safety.
    5. We've had the right to self defense since we lived in caves. Now some liberals want to change that.
    6. I plan to survive the Lottery of Violence.
    7. We use armored cars and guns to protect our money. Do our children deserve less?
    8. Now that I'm legally armed, where do I get legally churched, and buy a legal book?

    "Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense?" - Patrick Henry
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    zob
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    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:57 am Post subject:

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    pappy62 wrote:

    I do not carry a weapon for two reasons; One, I would most likely want to use it for Dumb A$$ drivers first! Second, criminals usually look for easy targets and I tried my best not to look like an easy target.


    Can't disagree with any of that. How many times have I wished I had a gun in my car on I-64?!

    pappy62 wrote:
    But I tell you, On 9-11, I wish some folks on those planes carried a weapon or two. There have been many times that innocent lives would have been and have been saved by some citizen who carried a weapon.


    Again, I can't disagree with that. But there's still a difference between pulling out a gun risking your life in order to save your life -- and pulling out a gun and potentially risking your life to save some money from being taken. You can be buried with the money I guess, but I suspect you won't get much satisfaction from it.

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    zob
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    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject:

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    I choose to live in a couple of other states, reality and preparation. Same reason I have insurance, a spare tire, and a fire extinguisher. And since I'm always armed, what do I have to be afraid of? Some no account punk? NOT!


    Sounds like things the whacko survivalists say. Do you have a cabin in the woods somehwere stockpiled with food and weapons?

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Virginia does, however, require you to retreat from a threat, which is why we need "Castle Doctrine." No one should be required to retreat from where they are lawfully allowed to be.


    That's the difference between intelligent common sense and swaggering machismo. Fortunately our lawmakers understand that civility and lives are more important than satisfying your sense of "where you are lawfully allowed to be." Otherwise the laws would state that you could shoot someone who cuts in front of you in your lane on I-64.

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    You'd be surprised how many citizen involved shootings never get reported. The main stream media is a business. Their business is selling sensationalism. Good-guy shootings don't fit the bill.


    That's just plain silly. Typical extremist right-wing made-up stuff in a weak attempt to justify facts that inconveniently support the opposing viewpoint. (If the hard cold facts don't jive with your view, then you have to try to discredit the facts).

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Nope. Banks OK. Schools OK as long as you stay in your car.


    Wrong. just two months ago someone was arrested in Hampton Roads when a gun was found in their car in a school parking lot.

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Private property, such as banks, that display a "gunbusters" sticker, if you are caught (concealed means what?) with a sidearm you can be asked to leave, failing to leave is trespassing, but NOT a gun charge. Anybody care to guess which 2 banks get robbed the most? Anybody care to guess which 2 banks use "gunbusters" stickers? Right again! Now the bonus question: Why do banks that prohibit guns, get robbed more than the other banks?


    Can you cite the sources of your statistics? Or did you make them up?

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Hard to search a dead/wounded victim for valuables. Much better to gain compliance, get what you want, then eliminate the witness. Then all the looky-loos only see a shadowy figure departing the area aas they call 911.


    I picture you as the mountain man in Deliverance with a wad of chewing tobacco in your cheek, big old muttonchop sideburns, a huge beerbelly and a shotgon slung over your shoulder -- and ready to cornhole any flatlander unfortunate enough to wander onto your property. If not physically, then at least mentally -- you're him!

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    I, on the other hand, carry precisely because of my wife and sons. I take personal responsibility for their safety. Further, I want to make sure that I come home every day.


    So you see yourself as John Wayne? News flash: By carrying a weapon and acting like a macho butthole you make yourself .. AND your family .. a much larger and more obvious target.

    zob wrote:
    "As a hotel General Manager, I've been through extensive` safety procedural training, including a full day of classroom training by a law enforcement office last month."


    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Taught by a cop carrying a sidearm. When's the last time you saw a cop replace his sidearm with one of those silly personal alarms, or say something like, "Oh, I see you have a weapon! Never mind then, my mistake. Please proceed with your illegal activities. Excuse me."


    You -- (thank God!) are not an officer of the law. He is. And your flip attitude towards dangerous weapons shows justhow dangerous you're to yourself, your family, and to society.

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    There are three kinds of people in this world. Sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves. If you are a sheep, you better hope there are a few sheepdogs around, since wolves go everywhere.


    Bullsh!t. What in the world happened to you when you were a child that frightened you so badly and made you grow up to be such a paranoid scaredy-cat??

    paramedic70002 wrote:

    A little education never hurts:



    Ain't that the truth. But in your case, neither does a little common sense and a little rationale.

    Last edited by zob on Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:19 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    alsky
    Denizen



    Joined: 29 Jul 2006
    Posts: 85
    Location: norfolk
    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Paramedic: You speak like you are an objective expert on the topic, but unfortunately, many of your "facts" are incorrect. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with each and every statement you made, but you're clearly representing an extremist viewpoint and there are very good arguments to made against your frightening statements.

    Quote:
    Most criminals go through an escalation process. Yesterday's shoplifter, today's kidnapper, tomorrow's cold blooded killer. I am not going to wager on the lottery of violence that my attacker has not got to the end of his criminal cycle.


    You're dead wrong about this. Most criminals specialize.

    Good luck being rude to strangers. You actually think that increases your safety? Be rude to the wrong person and you'll be dead before you get a chance to pull that weapon of yours.

    there is a lot of evidence to suggest that many people get killed when robberies "go bad." In other words, the criminal just wants your stuff, but if you fight them, they are more likely to get scared and kill you. Go ahead and be a martyr; I will give them all of my material things as long as I can escape with my life. It doesn't mean that it always happens that way, it means that more often than not, you will be safer if you comply.

    It sounds like you may have copied and pasted some of that stuff right from the NRA website.
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    Starbux1
    Power User



    Joined: 21 Dec 2005
    Posts: 734
    Location: Norfolk, VA
    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    pappy62 wrote:
    Just when I thought I could not possibly have any more respect for you... Then you come out with something like this and then... {Just a minute; Someone chopping onions out there!}



    Thanks Pappy!!
    Back atcha !!
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    "BUCK FUSH!"

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    paramedic70002
    Regular



    Joined: 25 Sep 2006
    Posts: 10
    Location: Franklin
    Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:57 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sounds like things the whacko survivalists say. Do you have a cabin in the woods somehwere stockpiled with food and weapons?

    No, but not a bad idea! Must you insult people here by calling them wackos?

    That's the difference between intelligent common sense and swaggering machismo. Fortunately our lawmakers understand that civility and lives are more important than satisfying your sense of "where you are lawfully allowed to be." Otherwise the laws would state that you could shoot someone who cuts in front of you in your lane on I-64.

    On the contrary, CHP holders are far more likely to retire from a confrontation. Getting into a gunfight is always the final option.
    Your example of being cut off is just wrong. Being cut off is not a deadly threat. The appropriate thing to do is raise your right foot and wave nicely. Civility? Do armed robbers show civility? More name calling! Shame.

    That's just plain silly. Typical extremist right-wing made-up stuff in a weak attempt to justify facts that inconveniently support the opposing viewpoint. (If the hard cold facts don't jive with your view, then you have to try to discredit the facts).

    Now I'm silly and extremist. And I make stuff up? How old are you?
    I didn't make up the website referenced. Here's another:
    http://www.healylaw.com/self-def.htm

    Wrong. just two months ago someone was arrested in Hampton Roads when a gun was found in their car in a school parking lot.

    Details? I remember a high school student age 18 being arrested for having a rifle in his car. Charges dropped, no law violation.

    Can you cite the sources of your statistics? Or did you make them up?

    I didn't cite statistics. I referenced my personal knowledge based on constant awareness of the subject matter.

    I picture you as the mountain man in Deliverance with a wad of chewing tobacco in your cheek, big old muttonchop sideburns, a huge beerbelly and a shotgon slung over your shoulder -- and ready to cornhole any flatlander unfortunate enough to wander onto your property. If not physically, then at least mentally -- you're him!

    I sense your irrational fears. Such insults. Obviously YOU have to substitute childish rhetoric in place of common sense.

    So you see yourself as John Wayne? News flash: By carrying a weapon and acting like a macho butthole you make yourself .. AND your family .. a much larger and more obvious target.

    That's one opinion. I'm no John Wayne. He was an actor, I'm not.

    You -- (thank God!) are not an officer of the law. He is. And your flip attitude towards dangerous weapons shows justhow dangerous you're to yourself, your family, and to society.

    And how do you know I'm not an officer of the law? Actually I used to be a Deputy Sheriff. You?
    I'm still waiting for the cops to disarm as a show of good faith that we are safe in public.

    Bullsh!t. What in the world happened to you when you were a child that frightened you so badly and made you grow up to be such a paranoid scaredy-cat??

    I watched the news. Do you? Or do you just post on the discusssion forum?
    Paranoid or survival oriented, it's just a label. And to repeat myself, I'm not scared, I'm armed. Oh and can we have a discussion without the use of profanity?

    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
    Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

    "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama, (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times) speaking at the "Educating Heart Summit" in Portland, Oregon, when asked by a girl how to react when a shooter takes aim at a classmate
    _________________
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    paramedic70002
    Regular



    Joined: 25 Sep 2006
    Posts: 10
    Location: Franklin
    Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:04 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [quote="zob"]How many times have I wished I had a gun in my car on I-64?![quote]

    Classic case of someone projecting their own mentality onto others. "I can't be trusted with weapons, so you can't either"
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    paramedic70002
    Regular



    Joined: 25 Sep 2006
    Posts: 10
    Location: Franklin
    Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:07 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Most criminals go through an escalation process. Yesterday's shoplifter, today's kidnapper, tomorrow's cold blooded killer. I am not going to wager on the lottery of violence that my attacker has not got to the end of his criminal cycle.

    This is EXACTLY what happened in this case. Reported in the news. Should I risk my life betting on an armed man not being WILLING to shoot me?
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    jas72
    Veteran



    Joined: 27 Apr 2005
    Posts: 489
    Location: Virginia Beach
    Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:14 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Starbux1 wrote:
    pappy62 wrote:
    Just when I thought I could not possibly have any more respect for you... Then you come out with something like this and then... {Just a minute; Someone chopping onions out there!}



    Thanks Pappy!!
    Back atcha !!



    Awwww! "Pappy and Starbux1, sittin' in a tree...."

    There you go, pappy. I'm back on the playground!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Unreal. I can't understand why it is that anti's get so damned abusive to us. Oh well. I don't think there is anything we can help you with.
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