USA Murder Rate

This is a discussion on USA Murder Rate within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Murders: The United States is 3rd in murders throughout the World! But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C. and New Orleans, the United ...

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  1. #1
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    Question USA Murder Rate

    Murders: The United States is 3rd in murders throughout the World!

    But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C. and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom for murders.

    (These 4 cities also have the toughest gun control laws in the United States, and are all controlled by Democrats.)

    This tell you anything?
    I haven't validated this. Anyone care to do the math?

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    I think you summarized it well. Progressive thinking kills.
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

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    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Never been good at math. But it sounds plausible.

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    It doesn't sound right to me at first look; particularly the part stating that the 4 cities have the toughest gun laws.
    Chicago, yes. But wouldn't Detroit have the same laws as MI???? (Home rule?)
    NOLA the same as LA in general, again is there a home rule enabling NO to be tougher in the gun control area than the rest of LA?

    DC is a special case.

    There are plenty of other high crime cities and areas. I'm also not convinced that the US is 3rd in murder rate.
    I think that rate is pretty dang high in many Latin American places and in "3rd and 4th" world nations.

    Nope, I'm not doing the data collection and analysis. Just "sayin" it doesn't sound right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    I haven't validated this. Anyone care to do the math?
    They also have a very low precentage of convictions based on the very high number of weapons violations and murders. There should be no such term as "Plea Bargain".
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    I actually read something very similar to this, but the 4 US cities it cited were LA, Chicago, Detroit, and NYC.
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    Not sure where this information comes from. Here is the first list I found: List of countries by intentional homocide rate. The United States is 103rd on the list, if I counted correctly. According to these data, most of Sub-Saharan Africa and South America has higher murder rates than the United States.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Nope, I'm not doing the data collection and analysis.
    Doing the math is an exercise in futility..who's numbers are to be believed?
    By arming myself I hope I never have to skew the results; but if I do have to defend myself I won't be part of "their" statistics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    They also have a very low precentage of convictions based on the very high number of weapons violations and murders. There should be no such term as "Plea Bargain".
    A scarey bad rate, most of all with gang-relateds. Imagine how bad it would be if plea bargains were not counted as "closures"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuva3rae View Post
    Not sure where this information comes from. Here is the first list I found: List of countries by intentional homocide rate. The United States is 103rd on the list, if I counted correctly. According to these data, most of Sub-Saharan Africa and South America has higher murder rates than the United States.
    They seem to have said third in murders, not murder rate. The US has a large population, so it makes sense.

    More interesting is to look at rates by state.

    US States ranked by murder rate per 100,000 residents (rates, crime rate, homicides) - City-Data Forum

    But regardless, there are too many other factors to use this data alone as evidence of the effect of gun laws. John Lott's analysis is what one should use for that.
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    This rather long study has all sorts of date. I found it when I was searching for information about accidental shootings when I was told that they'd skyrocketed. That doesn't seem to be the case though

    http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/reso.../monograph.pdf

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    Tale of two Cities

    A tale of two cities.
    The conclusion must be correct --- after all what other explanation could there be.

    Tale of Two Cities Chicago, IL vs Houston, TX
    Population Chicago = 2.7 million vs Houston = 2.15 million
    Median HH Income Chicago = $38,600 vs Houston = $37,000
    % African-American Chicago = 38.9% vs Houston = 24%
    % Hispanic Chicago = 29.9% vs Houston = 44%
    % Asian Chicago = 5.5% vs Houston = 6%
    % Non-Hispanic White Chicago = 38.7% vs Houston = 26%

    Pretty similar until you compare the following:

    Concealed Carry gun law Chicago = no vs Houston = yes
    # of Gun Stores Chicago = 0 vs Houston = 84 - Dedicated gun stores plus 1500 - legal places to buy guns- Walmart, K-mart, sporting goods, etc.
    Homicides, 2012 Chicago = 806 vs Houston = 207
    Homicides per 100K Chicago = 28.4 vs Houston = 9.6
    Avg. January high temperature – (F) Chicago = 31° vs Houston = 63°

    Conclusion: Cold weather causes murder.


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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It doesn't sound right to me at first look; particularly the part stating that the 4 cities have the toughest gun laws.
    Chicago, yes. But wouldn't Detroit have the same laws as MI???? (Home rule?)
    NOLA the same as LA in general, again is there a home rule enabling NO to be tougher in the gun control area than the rest of LA?

    DC is a special case.

    There are plenty of other high crime cities and areas. I'm also not convinced that the US is 3rd in murder rate.
    I think that rate is pretty dang high in many Latin American places and in "3rd and 4th" world nations.

    Nope, I'm not doing the data collection and analysis. Just "sayin" it doesn't sound right.
    Hopy, you are right about Detroit, they tried to enact laws back when conceal carry became shall issue in MI. But the state stepped in and told them NO....I think the information gathered by the OP is very much incorrect....

    http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top...der-rates.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuva3rae View Post
    Not sure where this information comes from. Here is the first list I found: List of countries by intentional homocide rate. The United States is 103rd on the list, if I counted correctly. According to these data, most of Sub-Saharan Africa and South America has higher murder rates than the United States.
    lol what is a homocide?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    They also have a very low precentage of convictions based on the very high number of weapons violations and murders. There should be no such term as "Plea Bargain".
    In regard to this very fact:

    My State Senator, Ron Johnson told me, through email I believe, or it may have been in an actual conversation, that something in neighborhood of around 1% of charges for convicted felons charged with firearms violation get prosecuted.

    He stated that until this number is drastically improved no further burden should he placed on the average firearm owner in any manner.

    This do to the simple fact that if you take out those killings caused by suicide (because seriously that is not a patrolabel offense if you ask me) & prior felons, the numbers drop dramatically to only 1% of the fatalities resulting from firearms by normal people for one reason or another. If factoring out accidental shootings that number would then drop significantly, I was told.

    Only problem with more convictions is more inmates nation wide, due to longer sentencing. As a result there is more money for prisons, so the leaching by both the criminals and governement systems still manage to use our money in mostly non-productive, as seen by return rates of prior convicted felons, albeit confessingly not a high percentage from firearms related convictions, as a way to see this trend. In otherwords, they were headed back anyway, for something else NOT firearms related also.

    Quite simply, we need a new system of Rehabilitaion. One that actually works.

    Only then will this nonsense be curbed.

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