The right to remain silent

The right to remain silent

This is a discussion on The right to remain silent within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I came across an interesting piece on slashdot this morning that fits with many of the discussions we've had here regarding talking to the police ...

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    The right to remain silent

    I came across an interesting piece on slashdot this morning that fits with many of the discussions we've had here regarding talking to the police and how to handle the things after an incident. The slashdot piece references two articles (link here and here) discussing a situation where a person was convicted of murder and how their refusal to answer questions was used against them.

    A couple of salient points from the article(s):
    During police questioning - but before he was arrested or read his Miranda rights - Salinas answered questions for more than an hour. He did not answer, however, when police asked him if the six shells found at the scene would match a shotgun found in his home. Instead, he looked down at the floor, bit his lip and "began to tighten up." After a few moments of silence, the police moved on to other questions, which Salinas answered, the opinion states.
    Prosecutors argued such silence does not have constitutional protection because of the other questions Salinas had answered and since he was not under arrest and was not compelled to speak.
    This was further upheld in SCOTUS rulings that one must explicitly invoke their right to remain silent and simply remaining mum does not satisfy this requirement and how instead it may be perceived as failure to cooperate, making the situation worse.

    While I know this subject has been beaten to death, it still serves as an important reminder (and especially so for the many newbies to the forum), how important it is to have your after the action plan, which should generally include a brief statement of how you were forced to defend yourself, pointing out key pieces of evidence and witnesses, saying you will cooperate and make a statement after you have had a chance to speak with your legal counsel.

    The other major point to this is (also a subject that has been talked about several times) that (excessively) talking to the police and answering questions, even when not being detained is usually not in your best interests.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    This was further upheld in SCOTUS rulings that one must explicitly invoke their right to remain silent and simply remaining mum does not satisfy this requirement and how instead it may be perceived as failure to cooperate, making the situation worse.
    Huh. SCOTUS actually judges the right to remain silent as demanding speech to proclaim that right, instead of that right existing in silence? B.S. This is exactly the sort of thing that makes me hate so-called "judges" who wordsmith and engage in semantic juggling to the point that concepts have no meaning to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    The other major point to this is (also a subject that has been talked about several times) that (excessively) talking to the police and answering questions, even when not being detained is usually not in your best interests.


    All too often, it turns out the investigating/arresting folks are most interested in closing the case, instead of finding justice. Combined with the courts and DA's being in on the scheme, in such cases, it's a major reason why Lady Justicia* wears a blindfold ... out of sheer embarrassment over what it's all become.

    * Thanks, O.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; June 18th, 2013 at 11:18 PM.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Lady Liberty wears no blindfold...

    Justicia (Lady Justice) the Roman Goddess of justice (Equivalent to Greek Goddess, Dike) does wear a blindfold.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Lady Liberty wears no blindfold...

    Justicia (Lady Justice) the Roman Goddess of justice (Equivalent to Greek Goddess, Dike) does wear a blindfold.
    Oops. Knew what I meant. Figgered folks knew what I meant. (As you did / but which I failed to double-check prior to posting. Ah well.)
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Oops. Knew what I meant. Figgered folks knew what I meant. (As you did / but which I failed to double-check prior to posting. Ah well.)
    Yeah, but I had to learn something today... and learning about Justicia was it... now I can go back to knuckledraggin...
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    The Police are not asking you questions because they want to get your life story, they suspect you of something. So no good can come from you answering ANY questions. Don't fool yourself into thinking that if you just clear up a few misconceptions that you will be free to go, it rarely works that way. The only answer you should ever give is "I don't answer questions and I want my lawyer".

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    A lawyer once told me police are like " Fishermen" they throw a big net out and maybe catch you in it. Once they have you in it . It is your job to wiggle out . So he told me not to say nothing at any time but be polite .
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    Senior Member Array Warrior1256's Avatar
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    Per my attorney my reply would be "I want to cooperate but I've just been through a traumatic experiance and am not thinking clearly. I do not wish to make a statement until after I've confered with my attorney".

    Nuff said.

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    I found that ruling very troublesome. I'm concerned that it will be the first of many that whittle away
    some essential protections. I do think this particular case was an odd one on which to make major tweaks to the law.
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    Member Array 91wm6's Avatar
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    This is bad news. We shouldn't have to verbally declare God given rights. I thought the Constitution explained that pretty well, but then again I don't have an Ivy League law education.
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    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior1256 View Post
    Per my attorney my reply would be "I want to cooperate but I've just been through a traumatic experiance and am not thinking clearly. I do not wish to make a statement until after I've confered with my attorney".

    Nuff said.
    I like that keep on saying it over and over

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    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    See THAT's why the NSA can snoop on us. We have to declare our rights to privacy at the beginning of each text message, e-mail or phone call.


    I can't believe Scalia had a part in that decision. (Kind of perplexed about his siding against the states in the voting/citizen thing too)
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I've pleaded the 5th at home a few times...it didn't get me much protection there either.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    As my attorney, Mortimer Saul Goldensmith, instructs (in a thick, gravely, Brooklyn accent), "DON'T SAY NUTHIN'!!! I'll be right there."

    In fact, it's a good idea to have Moray on the phone when the law arrives, so you can let him speak for you immediately.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91wm6 View Post
    This is bad news. We shouldn't have to verbally declare God given rights. I thought the Constitution explained that pretty well, but then again I don't have an Ivy League law education.
    These "judges" have educated themselves well enough to be able to twist things beyond all recognition (in the classic FUBAR sense of the word). And they're in the paid employ of the political-agenda machine in the swamp (aka, Washington DC) over yonder. They are no longer recognizing the simple, straightforward truth of things.

    Instead, and IMO this is a perfect case in point, they recognize the underlying agenda necessary, and they're finding some way to spoon-feed pap to the mob so that they'll swallow it without whining too much. Sadly, I think that's becoming more of their practical job description. They're sworn to dispassionately and apolitically judge and interpret the truths of the Constitution and questions that are presented in conflict with its guiding principles. They are not supposed to prostitute themselves and break their oaths at every opportunity for the political machine over the hill, at our expense.

    And if there's any mistake on that score, we have a specific duty and responsibility to remain as non-silent about that sort of crap as anything we've got going. Time to shake the tree a bit, to force the rotten apples to the ground, methinks.
    Tzadik and NONAME762 like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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