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Future of national reciprocity?

4K views 75 replies 34 participants last post by  ksholder 
#1 ·
This may be too soon to be discussing this again, but I'm curious on the thoughts of people here. After the defeat of the reciprocity bill back in April, are there any plans at present to try to attain that goal (either through legislation or the court system)? Perhaps if the Republicans take back the Senate in 2014? Given the trend the country is going in, with Illinois on the cusp of going Shall Issue, it seems that this could happen sooner or later.

Sorry if this is a dumb question.
 
#2 ·
I certainly hope not. National reciprocity means the feds have their fingers in yet another pie they are constitutionally banned from being involved with. If the 2A were simply obeyed we could carry nationally now with no infringement.

If the states ever work out things until all recognize each others permits fine. We need to keep the feds out of it and work toward pushing back present state and fed gun regs. All are illegal to start with from the first passed to the last.
 
#4 ·
All a court including SCOTUS can properly do is uphold 2A as written.

National anything is going to have to have the Feds involved to put it in place and enforce it which is out of their constitutional authority to do. A better way to get national carry would be if all the authorities involved simply stayed within their constitutional boundaries including SCOTUS. Anything that give the government more power in something they legally have none to start with is a bad thing.

A court or federally forced national program or to allow that to happen is a horribly bad idea. And the first step to federal regulations and confiscation on a national level. Leave it to the states. At least the politicians in the states can be voted out and influenced by that. The feds and SCOTUS not so much.
 
#5 ·
Some attorney generals in IL. County's are refusing to prosecute concealed carry violations if the person has a valid FOID card or a valid carry permit from another state. IMHO this is the way it should be in every state. The Fed's don't have to be involved. They screw up everything they touch.
 
#7 ·
We need it and there are ways for it to happen, but .... it is about as likely to happen as cold fusion.

We have too many of our own who hold what they mistakenly think are principled stands against national reciprocity.
Some of us just happily make life easier for those states which don't want reciprocity.
 
#35 ·
We need it and there are ways for it to happen, but .... it is about as likely to happen as cold fusion.
No, we DON'T need the federal government meddling in state's issues. We elect our state representatives who represent OUR values. NOT the values of the Washington DC corrupt mindset or the New York City liberal elite mindset.

What the federal government giveth, the federal government can taketh away.

NO THANK YOU.

Anyone who is an advocate of our RKBA is deadest against national reciprocity, national registry, UBC, or any other insidious federal government meddling of our sacred right to keep and bear arms.....

Which makes me very suspicious why you would support such a thing and yet claims to be pro-2A.

Care to explain this to us?
 
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#8 ·
Take the principals out of it for a moment and it simply becomes a dont let the fox in the hen house on purpose stand:gah:
National R would shortly level the field across the states to the most restrictive set of gun laws the feds could find and get by with.
Now Texas is considered a gun friendly state. So is Ky. Tx no OC, Ky Oc and cc. Tx gun buster signs have force of law, Ky they dont. Now even using Texas as a base why would I or anyone living in a more gun friendly state want to let the feds in so they can impose Texas standards on me in Ky??? Which would be a gentle fall.

Think more the Feds imposing across the national board the restrictions in NY on everyone. Please dont try to say they wont because everyone knows they will at the first chance they get. To think otherwise is living in a dream world. Otherwise we wouldnt be in this stupid fight with the feds every time someone shoots up a school or theater or other place.
 
#9 ·
Even if the Republicans re-took the Senate, they'd still have nowhere near enough votes to break a filibuster or override a veto by Obama. The only way it could get through is if it was attached to some other piece of legislation that was so important it managed to get around these issues, but even that is a huge long shot.
 
#10 ·
There were many problems with the bill as written. Registration being the worst. What we need is for SCOUS to say that we have the right to carry anywhere. This is without permits or permission from the state. When this great nation was young that's the way it was. That's one of the reasons the 2nd amendment was written. Will it happen. I hope so but im not holding my breath.
 
#14 ·
IMO, if the only real invasiveness of an NR requirement was for states to simply recognize a CHL holder as a legit GG, and if all CHL folk were required to adhere to the state-specific statutes in the state the person traveled through, then I can perhaps see utility in that. But if the feds get one ounce more of involvement into anything, in terms of control, monitoring, specification of standards/limitations, I'm gonna pass a stone. NO MORE.

In the long run, I think the liberty-haters are going to fight everything tooth-and-nail, until they drop dead of pointlessness or we erase them permanently from the political scene, keeping them as far from our Constitution and damage to our republic as we can possibly achieve. Until then, they'll keep trying to obliterate the Constitution's protections of our liberties.

What really needs to occur is a full-reset, a full wipe of all infringements and effective nullification of all arms related statutes, codes and other limitations and controls that seek to make the 2A into something it's not. The People's right to keep arms and to bear/carry arms Shall Not Be Infringed. That's pretty darned simple, right there. And until we again have that in practice, with iron-clad protections, guards and penalties against the liberty-haters who dare lift a finger or exert one ounce of effort to destroy that liberty, we'll have this fight.
 
#15 ·
National Reciprocity does not mean the FED must have oversight.

Each state has the power to grant reciprocity as it is now. (i.e) I recognize you, you recognize me) Period.

Indiana for instance grants reciprocity from any state to anyone who has a CC permit w/o intervention from the FED.

Keep the FED out of it. Perhaps rename this thing and remove the word "National"
 
#17 ·
This is not a Fed control issue. All it is saying is that your permit would be valid in all states like your driver's license. You would need to abide by that STATE"S laws. There will not be a list of regs for every state. You would be responsible to know the different CC laws of each state. Leave your 15 round mag home when going to NY but you can carry in somewhere selling alcohol for consumption. What it MIGHT lead to is states, again like NY imposing more restrictions on CC since they have very few now. I for one would love to see it for nothing else than watching guys like Bloomberg getting their panties twisted.
 
#20 ·
There is no workload on the Feds at all with the proposals for national reciprocity.

I don't understand how folks who think marriages and divorces should be (as they are) nationally recognized can't
grasp that CHLs can similarly be nationally recognized.

It is or should be as simple as the notion that you have a license, you are good to go.
 
#22 ·
Look up the huge fight for National R on drivers licensing! They had all the same arguements back then! The Feds will take over! The States will write new laws to keep others out! Etc..... But what do we have now? I can drive freely from CA into AZ, I just need to rember that I cant turn right against a red light in AZ. Or in OR I cant pump my own gas.......... Its an OK system. DR
 
#30 ·
While I hate the feds doing anything these days, I don't see much harm in states recognizing permits like they already do for driver's licenses. I don't view national reciprocity much different than LEOSA, either. In fact, I bet NY and NJ would test it, arresting people carrying on out-of-state permits until forced by the courts.

The current patchwork of reciprocity, especially here in the northeast is a mess. I wouldn't be too upset if states like NY, NJ, CT, and my own, Mass were forced to honor all CCW/LTC.
 
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#38 ·
So hop,

'splain to me how the legislature can create this 2nd A protection act, and pass it, andNOT have it subject to the Supremes saying it's UN Constitutional... Because, for instance, it removes the state's right to "reasonable regulation"....

Since the SCOTUS has already determined it is an individual right, but subject to reasonable regulation... The Legislature would be in direct conflict with a "constitutional" determination of the court....

It seems you can't have this utopian federalism you dream of, without messing up one branch or the other...

Yeah, I got tapatalk, too. So what?
 
#42 ·
Congress, instead of The 9, would legislate what the states may not do. They have this power because it would be
upholding 2A against the states. That is a power they have after Heller (or was it McDonald?) --the one which
incorporated 2A under the 14th.

Too many participants here have the problem exactly upside down. The problem is not that the Federal Government
infringes (though it does with regard to some specific types of weapons) it is that the states infringe--- almost all of them,
even when they do things contrary to their own state constitutions.
 
#40 ·
Am I just beyond hope for wanting a national reciprocity for the 2A? To hell with CHP/CCWs, just give me lawful OC/CC in every state without need for any permits, legal hurdles, and whatnot.

It's really not that hard.

What pisses me off about this whole conversation (on a national level, not here on the forums) is the fact that we even have to have it. If some state tried to re-enact slavery tomorrow and somehow passed a law allowing it, it'd be shot down the next week by SCOTUS via the 13A. Meanwhile, they seem to have no problem allowing stuff to infringe on the 2A.
 
#41 ·
Couple of differences in drivers licences and gun permits. The feds dont want to ban drivers licences or cars. They slobber at the mouth to ban guns.

Letting the feds have control over a national anything concerning guns leads to at best the very gun friendly states being reduced to the level of the least gun friendly states in short order. As it is now my state other than having a permit for cc and that stupid check if your going thru a dealer is very gun friendly. Much more so than say Texas which is gun friendly also but not so much as Ky.

Yes when I have to go to Texas I have to obey their states laws but I can cc there. I can live with that.
When I get home I can oc, have a firearm with no permit at all, cc with a permit, no force of law on gun buster signs like in Texas.
A lot of states are like mine and why on earth would anyone want to let the feds foot in the door to at very least use that new found crack in the door to kick it wide open and federally regulate to the highest level it can every states gun regs to the same thing as say NY? Think they wont? Just look back at what they have already done, constantly try to do, and stop trying to compare guns to drivers licences because that dog dont hunt.

Beyond that they already have overstepped their bounds by about a million miles to start with. No more, no further infringement and only push to get every gun law written dismantled from now on.
 
#44 ·
I would daresay that the federal government for over 200 years has not attempted anything in any venue that it has not either messed it up from the beginning or messed it up at some point during. Sometimes thru stupidity but most times for its own power gain or simply corruption.

Even when we fight wars we win them on the back a military that manages to win in spite of Federal government meddling ridiculous rules of engagement etc all thru history.

How on earth anyone thinks that the Federal government can or would protect 2A as its written without screwing it up as it has done almost from its inception is beyond me
 
#46 ·
I have said it before and I will say it again. The constitutions bill of rights is the highest law of this great country. The 2ndis written in plain simple language. The states and feds do not pay attention to it. There should be NO GUN LAWS. Including background checks and the should repeal every one going back to 1936. What part of "shall not be infringed" doesn't any one understand.
For over 200 years we in Vermont have had no real restrictions on firearms. We have the lowest homicide rates in the country and one of the lowest in the world.
 
#47 ·
I have said it before and I will say it again. The constitutions bill of rights is the highest law of this great country. The 2ndis written in plain simple language. The states and feds do not pay attention to it. There should be NO GUN LAWS. Including background checks and the should repeal every one going back to 1936. What part of "shall not be infringed" doesn't any one understand.
For over 200 years we in Vermont have had no real restrictions on firearms. We have the lowest homicide rates in the country and one of the lowest in the world.
Please keep in mind that there are many factors which go into that. Vermont is sparsely populated and very rural.
Your homicide rate can't be compared with that of our heavily populated TX with several major cities (metro areas)
each having larger populations than the entire state of Vermont. Population density is a distinct risk factor for
high crime rate in general.

Where I live there is a lot of crime, and a lot of gun crime, and there are almost daily arrests for illegal
possession, often by folks also arrested for drug crimes, domestic violence, DUI, and the occasional
bank robbery. This btw is quite the opposite of how things were 40 years ago when the county's population was
roughly half what it is today.
 
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