The anti's new weapon of choice

The anti's new weapon of choice

This is a discussion on The anti's new weapon of choice within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun UPDATED: 7:12 AM EST January 13, 2005 NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law ...

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Thread: The anti's new weapon of choice

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
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    The anti\'s new weapon of choice

    Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun

    UPDATED: 7:12 AM EST January 13, 2005

    NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.

    FeedRoom


    New Gun Frightens Police




    Scott Weinberger


    The most shocking fact may be that the gun -- known as the "five-seven" -- is being marketed to the public, and it's completely legal

    It was a very difficult decision for members of law enforcement to go public about the new weapon, but officers fear that once word of the weapon begins to circulate in the wrong circles, they will be in great danger. They agreed to speak to NewsChannel 4, hoping the public will understand what they call the most devastating weapon they face.

    The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds without reloading.

    "This would be devastating," said Chief Robert Troy, of the Jersey City Police Department.

    Troy said he learned about the high-powered pistol from a bulletin issued by Florida Department of Law Enforcement to all of its agents. Troy believes faced with this new weapon, his officers would be at a total disadvantage.

    "Dealing with a gun like this -- it's a whole new ballgame," Troy said.

    Troy is not the only member of law enforcement to voice concern. As NewsChannel 4 began to contact several more departments in the Tri-State Area, it turned out that officers in Trumball, Conn., had seized one of these handguns during a recent arrest.

    "Certainly, handguns are a danger to any police officer on any day, but one that specifically advertised by the company to be capable of defeating a ballistic vest is certainly the utmost concern to us," said Glenn Byrnes, of the Trumball Police Department.

    The five-seven is made by FN Herstal, a Belgian company. On its Web site, the company boasts the five-seven's ability to penetrate more than 48 layers of Kevlar -- the material bulletproof vests are made of -- if you use a five-seven, 28-mm armor-piercing bullet.

    However, the company said that bullet is not sold to the public. Instead, gun buyers can purchase what the company calls a training or civilian bullet -- the type loaded into the gun confiscated by Trumball police.

    At a distance of 21 feet, Trumball police Sgt. Lenny Scinto fired the five-seven with the ammo sold legally to the public into a standard police vest. All three penetrated the vest.

    The bullets even went through the back panel of the vest, penetrating both layers.

    In a similar test, an officer fired a .45-caliber round into the same vest. While the shot clearly knocked it down, it didn't penetrate the vest, and an officer would likely have survived the assault.

    "The velocity of this round makes it a more penetrating round -- that's what had me concerned," Scinto said.

    FN Herstal told NewsChannel 4 that they dispute the test, stating, "Most law enforcement agencies don't have the ability to properly test a ballistic vest."

    When NewsChannel 4 asked how this could have happened, the spokesperson said: "We [the company] are not experts in ballistic armor."

    Back in Trumball, Scinto said his officers would have to rethink how to protect the public and protect themselves.

    "This is going to add a whole new dimension to training and tactics. With the penetration of these rounds, you're going to have to find something considerably heavier than we normally use for cover and concealment to stop this round," Scinto said.

    In Jersey City, Troy said he will appeal to lawmakers, hoping they will step in before any of his officers are confronted with the five-seven.

    "This does not belong in the civilian population. The only thing that comes out of this is profits for the company and dead police officers," Troy said. "I would like the federal government to ban these rounds to the civilian public."


  2. #2
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    This reminds me of all of the hand wringing that was going on about the Glock being able to go through airport security without being detected. I can't believe these people are so quick to actually publish how big a ******* they really are to the world....

    <steps away from pulpit and opens a Guiness Stout>

  3. #3
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    If I'm not mistaken, this firearm and ammunition was writen aboutin Guns n' Ammo over a one year ago.

    Why is the press jumping on this now? Slow news day? Some liberal senator falling behind in the polls near that newspaper?

    If I wanted to defeat body armor and a cardiac plate, I could cast and chill linotype slugs and drive them at high speed from my Marlin Guide Gun. Since a few of these slugs could stop a cape buffalo, the blunt trauma must be considered lethal.

    Considering the cost of solder for fifty (50) rounds, it would cost me little more than ten cents.

    AP Madison. It was learned today that local ne'erdowell, 'The Tourist,'was found with home brewing equipment capable of disrupting 50 law enforcement officers for less than ten cents. Authorities report that he has had this capability for over three decades. He has never been a public threat. No officer has ever been threatened or hit.

    See our full report of this non-story in our Sunday Edition. Read about it in "Smelter of Death."

  4. #4
    Member Array silvercorvette's Avatar
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    here is a link to the site


    http://www.greendevils.pl/technika_wojskowa/bron/fn57/fn57.html

    It does sound pretty impressive.
    PS I started out as a cop in 1970 a few years before body armor became popular. It never bothered me to work without a vest. A few years after I came on the job a company (Point Blank??) developed the first light weight vest, my department issued them and I paid extra for a metal shock plate but I didnít walk around thinking I was indestructible. I donít think any cop believes that just because he is wearing vest bullets wonít hurt him. I do question why a company would use the fact itís weapon can go through a vest. It seems like they are just asking for trouble. I am sure you would never have a company that makes sharp knives brag that they can cut a persons head off. What were they thinking when the brought that up?

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    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    My F-I-L is with the local PD...they were given this handout describing this "threat"....It was a little overboard on drama if you ask me...

  6. #6
    Member Array silvercorvette's Avatar
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    Originally posted by AZG23
    My F-I-L is with the local PD...they were given this handout describing this \"threat\"....It was a little overboard on drama if you ask me...
    I agree with you but I think it is just dumb for any company to make a claim their weapon can go through body armor as a selling point is just asking for trouble..

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Originally posted by silvercorvette
    Originally posted by AZG23
    My F-I-L is with the local PD...they were given this handout describing this \"threat\"....It was a little overboard on drama if you ask me...
    I agree with you but I think it is just dumb for any company to make a claim their weapon can go through body armor as a selling point is just asking for trouble..
    What if I\'m worried about professional criminals having body armor? They just might.

    What about SHTF scenarios? You don\'t think terrorist organizations, foreign or domestic, or invading armies don\'t have such armor?

    I know what you\'re saying; that it really is pointless to advertise something is capable of such a feat because the people who want it for that reason will figure it out anyway and it will just upset the morons otherwise. The real issue here though is that if I think I need a gun that can penetrate Kevlar, then it\'s nobody else\'s business, and if someone wants to try to sell me a gun based on that criterion, that\'s their business.

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    Member Array silvercorvette's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Euclidean
    Originally posted by silvercorvette
    Originally posted by AZG23
    My F-I-L is with the local PD...they were given this handout describing this \"threat\"....It was a little overboard on drama if you ask me...
    I agree with you but I think it is just dumb for any company to make a claim their weapon can go through body armor as a selling point is just asking for trouble..
    What if I\'m worried about professional criminals having body armor? They just might.

    What about SHTF scenarios? You don\'t think terrorist organizations, foreign or domestic, or invading armies don\'t have such armor?

    I know what you\'re saying; that it really is pointless to advertise something is capable of such a feat because the people who want it for that reason will figure it out anyway and it will just upset the morons otherwise. The real issue here though is that if I think I need a gun that can penetrate Kevlar, then it\'s nobody else\'s business, and if someone wants to try to sell me a gun based on that criterion, that\'s their business.
    I agree with you100% I just think the ad department may have gone overboard and put the spotlight on themself.

  9. #9
    Member Array nf9648's Avatar
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    Originally posted by silvercorvette
    Originally posted by Euclidean
    Originally posted by silvercorvette
    Originally posted by AZG23
    My F-I-L is with the local PD...they were given this handout describing this \"threat\"....It was a little overboard on drama if you ask me...
    I agree with you but I think it is just dumb for any company to make a claim their weapon can go through body armor as a selling point is just asking for trouble..
    What if I\'m worried about professional criminals having body armor? They just might.

    What about SHTF scenarios? You don\'t think terrorist organizations, foreign or domestic, or invading armies don\'t have such armor?

    I know what you\'re saying; that it really is pointless to advertise something is capable of such a feat because the people who want it for that reason will figure it out anyway and it will just upset the morons otherwise. The real issue here though is that if I think I need a gun that can penetrate Kevlar, then it\'s nobody else\'s business, and if someone wants to try to sell me a gun based on that criterion, that\'s their business.
    I agree with you100% I just think the ad department may have gone overboard and put the spotlight on themself.
    You guys are missing the point, the reason it is advertised as penetating body armor is because for the last 10 years or so it has been marketed to Govt and LEO\'s only. People have always known about this gun and the P90, but couldnt purchase it. Now that it is legal for civilian sale people are buying it up because it is a cool thing to have (Id be doing the same thing if they lifted the 86 full auto ban too), not because of its AP qualities. The 5.7 weapons system was designed around 1990 as the US Army\'s cure to the anemic 9mm fmj rounds we were arming our pilots and select ground crew with; they needed something to defeat the Com Bloc body armor that we would have faced had the Soviet Empire not collapsed. It was designed to US Army specifications then never bought. This isnt a new gun, although the P90 has been around about 5 years longer it is still nothing new. It has been advertised for its AP capability since it came out, and until the last year was one of those \"look, but dont touch\" kinda deals. Enough of the rant, I dont think people realize that there are at least 3 other handguns that have been on the market since the 50\'s that can do the same thing the Five seveN can for under $200. Nobody ever complained about those.

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    I for one have only known it existed for maybe 2 years....I did not know this...very interesting...What are the other handguns you mention..?? Im curious if Im thinking of the same ones or if Im way off...

  11. #11
    Member Array silvercorvette's Avatar
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    I bet it is banned in New York

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    Member Array nf9648's Avatar
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    Dunno if the CZ52 rings a bell, they can be had in shotgun news for under $100 and are chambered in the 7.62x25. If the 5.7 is little bro to the .223, the 7.62x25 is the same to the 7.62x39.

    The Grendel P30 was chambered in .22 mag with a 30 round magazine in the grip, virtually the same size as the five seven and at the time they were being produced they could be had for under $200.

    .22 mag has had this capability since it came out yet didnt draw any publicity because it was not designed to defeat soft body armor. But it does, and a hell of a lot cheaper than a 5.7x28.

  13. #13
    Member Array nf9648's Avatar
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    Originally posted by silvercorvette
    I bet it is banned in New York
    Youre law abiding New Yorkers are always welcome to come join the USA. :D

  14. #14
    Member Array silvercorvette's Avatar
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    Originally posted by nf9648
    Originally posted by silvercorvette
    I bet it is banned in New York
    Youre law abiding New Yorkers are always welcome to come join the USA. :D
    I want to get the heck out of NY. I wanted to start checking out other states and getting my house ready to sell, but my back has kept me in bed for over a week so I haven\'t done a darn thing except post on a few forums.

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    Member Array nf9648's Avatar
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    Im doing the unthinkable and buying a house in Hawaii...doubt Ill stay there long after I get out of the military in 09\'. Ill rent it to the in-laws or something while I chase a 6 digit paycheck with a mainland based company.

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