Murder Rates vs Florida Concealed Carrry Permits

Murder Rates vs Florida Concealed Carrry Permits

This is a discussion on Murder Rates vs Florida Concealed Carrry Permits within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Reaction about Zimmerman: We have great faith in America’s jury system and do not question the verdict in the Zimmerman case. However, this case raises ...

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Thread: Murder Rates vs Florida Concealed Carrry Permits

  1. #1
    Member Array Boyntonstu's Avatar
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    Exclamation Murder Rates vs Florida Concealed Carrry Permits

    Reaction about Zimmerman:

    We have great faith in America’s jury system and do not question the verdict in the Zimmerman case.

    However, this case raises serious questions about the wisdom of stand-your-ground laws and the easy access to concealed weapons permits in states like Florida, where more than one million permits have been issued since 1987 when the state’s concealed weapons law went into effect. Had neither been in place, this tragedy may never have occurred.
    First of all, Stand Your Ground was never invoked.

    Go here to learn the true facts about Florida and gun ownership:

    http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/..._clock_06.aspx

    Murder rate per hours and minutes year by year:

    2006 7 hours 46 minutes

    2007 7 hours 17 minutes

    2008 7 hours 21 minutes

    2009 8 hours 37 minutes

    2010 8 hours 53 minutes

    2011 8 hours 54 minutes

    2012 8 hours 42 minutes

    Are murder rates increasing or decreasing as concealed handgun permits increase?


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Only shows 2006. Where are you getting 2007-2012?
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyntonstu View Post

    Are murder rates increasing or decreasing as concealed handgun permits increase?
    You are confusing correlation with causation.

    The 10 Most Bizarre Correlations
    RockingGlock32 and Hopyard like this.

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    Member Array Boyntonstu's Avatar
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    Sorry, see all years here: Florida Department of Law Enforcement


    Also see:

    Florida Department of Law Enforcement

    See the Highlights box: Lowest crime rates in 42 years (With over 1,000,000 CC permits)

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    Member Array Boyntonstu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    You are confusing correlation with causation.

    The 10 Most Bizarre Correlations


    The people who want more gun control to prevent crime are confusing correlation with causation.
    maxwell97 likes this.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyntonstu View Post
    The people who want more gun control to prevent crime are confusing correlation with causation.
    And you are doing the exact same thing they are doing. Just because I agree with your ultimate goal does not mean I will not call you out on it.
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    Member Array Dougb's Avatar
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    You might want to look up world wide murder rates that include all causes. While we have a high (comparative) gun murder rate, our overall murder rate is not out of line. And even as the number of guns increase and the number of carry permits skyrocket, the murder rate declines. If you remove guns from gun violence, the rate goes down for gun violence, but not necessarily for violence, or even for murder. Historically, countries with low murder rates (England, Australia) haven't seen a drop when guns were restricted. Other weapons get used. The scholarly studies, ignored by Brady groups, shows that other social factors effect violence more than the presence of guns, but then you have to deal with real causes and not scary black rifles. Things like jobs, education, gangs and drugs, personal safety, family, and history.

    Current Worldwide Homicide/Murder Rate

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    And you are doing the exact same thing they are doing. Just because I agree with your ultimate goal does not mean I will not call you out on it.
    I believe the point is, there is no statistical evidence that carry permits correlate to an increase in crime.

    John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime is the place to look for statistical analysis of the impacts of gun laws.
    gtfoxy likes this.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

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    I live in Florida and CCW is good for its citizens. I don't worry about my wife when she is home alone and I don't worry about when I go about my daily business. I know we can handle just about any situation we are forced into.
    RockingGlock32 likes this.

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    Member Array gtfoxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    You are confusing correlation with causation.

    The 10 Most Bizarre Correlations
    Can not the two exist simultaneously and synonymously, yet at the same time individually and ambiguously?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    You are confusing correlation with causation.

    The 10 Most Bizarre Correlations
    While you're correct that correlation does not necessarily indicate causation, it *does* provide a starting point for further investigation. Out of your linked examples (the article) there are a few, such as ice cream vs murder, where further investigation would reveal a possible *third* factor, such as hot weather, which has some causative effect for both correlating events. People eat more ice cream when it is hot out, hot weather is also traditionally linked to increases in crime rates, presumably due to increased activity out of doors.

    In others, there is no proposed mechanism which would link the two sets of observations, such as the correlation between living in a poor country and having a larger penis.

    In still others, such as the M. night Shamalan vs newspaper sales, the data actually shows the relationship to be opposite to that which was jokingly postulated. The chart shows that the movies get less or more popular *before* the corresponding decrease or increase in readership.

    In others, such as autism to organic foods, the correlation only exist in short, selective data segments. This is just poor math and science.

    On the other hand, there *is* a proposed, and rational link of cause and effect between CCW holders and decreased murder rates. Specifically, the fact that even violent criminals don't want to get killed. Further studies exist that actually investigate and detail this relationship.

    So, while correlation does not equal causation, there *is* evidence supporting the causative relationship between the increase in CCW licensees and reduced murder rates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    You are confusing correlation with causation.

    The 10 Most Bizarre Correlations
    Re #3, I am moving to Haiti.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Re #3, I am moving to Haiti.
    You'll just bring the average down and be poor. (j/k)
    Voice likes this.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    Although the statistics cited can not be used to logically prove a correlation , they can be used to disprove the often stated "more guns equals more murder".
    Maybe, just maybe, by throwing these statistics at someone who spouts this drivel, you can knock them of the emotional into the logical.

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