Local Sears store a gun free zone- sort of

Local Sears store a gun free zone- sort of

This is a discussion on Local Sears store a gun free zone- sort of within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I say sort of because signs were not posted at every door. Went to the Sears store in Biloxi, MS today to pick up a ...

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Thread: Local Sears store a gun free zone- sort of

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    Member Array JackMs's Avatar
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    Local Sears store a gun free zone- sort of

    I say sort of because signs were not posted at every door. Went to the Sears store in Biloxi, MS today to pick up a dishwasher I ordered. While driving into the mall I noticed a very small sign attached to a stop sign post stating firearms were not allowed to be carried on the property. I suspect this sign carried no weight as it was barely noticeable.

    As I was entering the store I noticed the new signs on the doors. I needed my dishwasher so I went back to my truck, disarmed and locked up my gun. Got my dishwasher and left. I drove around store and saw 2 other doors that had no sign. Maybe they were in the process, I don't know. I guess we will see a lot of this now that the open carry confusion has been cleared up. Guess I need to contact Sears and voice my opinion. It was an uneasy feeling disarming. Was thinking on the way out that all the criminals in the parking lot know everyone coming out is an easy target now.


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    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    Find out what state law is regarding signage.... sounds like they wouldnt meet it but better for you to know the word of the law
    ”God grants Liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.”
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    Member Array kriller1217's Avatar
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    I just moved to Mississippi for work, I have noticed ALOT more gunbuster signs than I had expected, especially since I am in the south. Moving from Florida it is a surprise to see so many signs.

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    In Nevada we have them but they don't bear the force of law. If you are discovered to be carrying or are open carrying you can be asked to leave if you refuse the police can be called and you can be arrested for trespassing. This includes casinos.

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    Member Array JackMs's Avatar
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    You must follow signage in MS and the only requirement is that it is readable from 10 feet, so I guess it is legitamate. I think a green sign with white letters among green bushes with white flowers is a little deceiving, especially to us color blind guys.

    A lot of signs have gone up since this chaos with this law. Some local PD's were actually making the signs and going door to door to businesses to explain the law to them, sort of suggesting that they can put the signs up.

    Guess I'm not sure if this is a sears policy or the policy of whoever runs the whole mall.

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    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdave View Post
    In Nevada we have them but they don't bear the force of law. If you are discovered to be carrying or are open carrying you can be asked to leave if you refuse the police can be called and you can be arrested for trespassing. This includes casinos.


    Not trying to create an argument, but I don't understand what you mean by "...they don't bear the force of law." If you refused to leave you can be arrested fro trespassing, right, the same legal status as here in Texas. That is the "force of the law". it is private property open to the public...just curious.

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    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackMs View Post
    You must follow signage in MS and the only requirement is that it is readable from 10 feet, so I guess it is legitamate. I think a green sign with white letters among green bushes with white flowers is a little deceiving, especially to us color blind guys.

    A lot of signs have gone up since this chaos with this law. Some local PD's were actually making the signs and going door to door to businesses to explain the law to them, sort of suggesting that they can put the signs up.

    Guess I'm not sure if this is a sears policy or the policy of whoever runs the whole mall.


    I've been in that Sears store hundreds of times...I'm from Biloxi, Miss...the OP also stated there was a smaller sign at the perimeter with the stop sign. It should be rather questionable as along the west side of the property is a public thoroughfare..wonder if the sign was at all stops signs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    Not trying to create an argument, but I don't understand what you mean by "...they don't bear the force of law." If you refused to leave you can be arrested fro trespassing, right, the same legal status as here in Texas. That is the "force of the law". it is private property open to the public...just curious.
    Exactly as he explained. The sign is a notice of the private property owner that they wish not to have firearms on their property. The government did not place the sign nor have they codified having a gun there as a crime. The sign has no force of law. If you do not heed the request of the property owner, and they ask you to leave, and you do not do so, you can be arrested for trespassing. You would not be arrested for having a firearm on their property, as it is not a crime. The sign has no force of law.
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    The malls both Edgewater and the soon to be demolished Singing River have always had rules signs posted at the entrances of the property that even say no cameras but nobody ever reads those either. The signs on the doors are new. I even notice that Sinking River Mall added additional sigbs coming onto the property recently. They had already placed them on the doors prior to July 1. SRM would be a higher threat potential that you wouldn't want to disarm for. USM1976 makes a good point about the thoroughfare at EWM though. I know for a fact unless recently changed that neither mall has armed security and the security they have, have no authority...and all of the hoodlums known it. I have however witnessed physical contact from a Belk Loss Prevention guard before.
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    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaSig View Post
    Exactly as he explained. The sign is a notice of the private property owner that they wish not to have firearms on their property. The government did not place the sign nor have they codified having a gun there as a crime. The sign has no force of law. If you do not heed the request of the property owner, and they ask you to leave, and you do not do so, you can be arrested for trespassing. You would not be arrested for having a firearm on their property, as it is not a crime. The sign has no force of law.


    Sorry, don't agree with you....similar signs here in Texas...they sign have the force of the law...trespassing...simple...the signs here in Texas stated you could be arrested for trespassing...force of the law.

    "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun."

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    RT
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    Sorry, don't agree with you....similar signs here in Texas...they sign have the force of the law...trespassing...simple...the signs here in Texas stated you could be arrested for trespassing...force of the law.

    "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun."
    Not every state has the same laws as Texas. For example, here in Indiana, there is no law equivalent to Section 30.06 of the Texas Penal Code. Can you be arrested for trespassing in Indiana for refusing to leave an establishment when asked while carrying? Yes, but at that point, the arrest has nothing to do with the firearm. It's really no different than someone being arrested for trespassing because they were unruly and disruptive to business and refused to leave when asked.

    The main difference between the law in Texas and the law in a state where signs have "no force of law" is that in Texas, you have broken the law by merely walking into a properly posted establishment while carrying, yet in a state like Indiana, there is no such law to break. In Texas, if you were found to be carrying and were asked to leave the establishment, even if you did so promptly, you would still be subject to arrest for trespass according to the way the law reads. In a "no force of law" state, given the same scenario, there would be no grounds for arrest provided you exited the premises promptly.

    Anybody else find it rather odd that Texas is considered by some to be an incredibly gun friendly state, yet they have laws like the one mentioned above and forbid open carry?

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    I've started carrying a couple of "No Gun = No Money" cards in my wallet. Anytime I come across retailers who buy into the "ban gun" nonsense, I make sure I leave one at a cashier just before leaving (after telling them how much they've just lost in revenue). The cards can be easily located by doing an internet search. Some are free with downloadable templates for printing. Others come with a nominal cost, but have a pretty darn good message on both sides. A great way to push back.

    Right To Carry reduces crime: Studying crime trends in every county in the U.S., economist John Lott and David Mustard concluded, “allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes. . . . [W]hen state concealed handgun laws went into effect in a county, murders fell by 8.5 percent, and rapes and aggravated assaults fell by 5 and 7 percent.”8
    Source: NRA-ILA

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    Member Array grbr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    Not trying to create an argument, but I don't understand what you mean by "...they don't bear the force of law." If you refused to leave you can be arrested fro trespassing, right, the same legal status as here in Texas. That is the "force of the law". it is private property open to the public...just curious.
    No, that is not "force of law".

    State where sign has NO force of law:

    They can post, and if you come in they can ask you to leave (as they can ask anyone to leave for any reason because it is private property), and if you refuse you are guilty of trespassing. It had absolutely nothing to do with the sign or the gun. It was that the owner or an agent of the owner asked you to leave and you didn't, and that's trespassing. It wasn't the sign itself that had any force of law behind it.

    State where sign DOES have force of law:

    The moment you enter the area posted with the sign you are guilty of trespassing, and can be arrested. They don't have to ask you to leave and see if you refuse, a cop can simply walk up and slap cuffs on you, because the sign itself had the force of law behind it, so you were doing something illegal the moment you walked past it. Heck, you could even come in and leave without incident, and have an officer show up the next day to arrest you.
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    Member Array ezveedub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grbr View Post
    Heck, you could even come in and leave without incident, and have an officer show up the next day to arrest you.
    That's very subjective. Police would have to enforce the law at the time of incident, not at a later date, without sufficient evidence that could stand up in a court of law that could justify the arrest. That's like having the cops show up to your house for being intoxicated in public the day afterwards without ever encountering any incidents or LE personnel. For sure, LE can come up with some idea for arrest at a later date, but it won't stand up in court unless a felony charge or criminal activity could justify it.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    Not trying to create an argument, but I don't understand what you mean by "...they don't bear the force of law." If you refused to leave you can be arrested fro trespassing, right, the same legal status as here in Texas. That is the "force of the law". it is private property open to the public...just curious.
    The difference is in the signage, whether signs = notification, legally speaking.

    States that where signs are recognized as having the force of law mean that the mere existence of the sign is considered sufficient notification. If one is found on premises carrying despite the sign, one can be arrested for trespass.

    In states where signs, alone, do not have the force of law, mere existence of a sign does not constitute lawful notification. If, however, one is specifically asked by a representative of that business to leave, and one doesn't, then trespass charges can be leveled.
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