U of Utah loses in court, goes back to legislature

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Thread: U of Utah loses in court, goes back to legislature

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    U of Utah loses in court, goes back to legislature

    http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650211871,00.html

    U. redirects gun fight

    School asks legislators to preserve part of ban

    By Erin Stewart
    Deseret Morning News
    University of Utah leaders are taking their gun fight to the Legislature, hoping to keep at least part of the school's controversial gun ban intact.
    After losing a lengthy and costly court battle, U. President Michael Young is working with legislators to find if the no-guns rule could work in limited circumstances such as in residence halls and athletic venues.
    President Michael Young is seeking a limited gun ban on the U. campus. "My sense is that at the end of the day, the Legislature and the university ought to share the same agenda, which is the issue of safety," Young said.
    The school's five-year court battle ended in September when the Utah Supreme Court struck down the gun ban at the state's flagship university, saying the school had no authority to make policy contrary to state statute. Although school leaders initially said they would continue with a federal case, Young has now decided to try to work through the Legislature after already spending roughly $300,000 battling through the courts.
    John Morris, the U.'s general counsel, said that money came from discretionary donations to the university and not from tax or tuition funds.
    Young, who previously worked as a lawyer, said it would not have been his first choice to go to court, but he could not second-guess the decision of former U. President Bernie Machen, who started the court battle in 2001.
    "Like any wise lawyer, litigation ought to be a last alternative, not a first one. I wasn't here, so I don't know what kinds of conversations occurred," Young said.
    The Legislature is where Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said the discussion should have taken place all along, noted Brent Burnett, assistant Utah attorney general.
    "The university needs to take its concerns to the Legislature, and they were not doing that," Burnett said. "The U. originally made claims that they had the right to make decisions independent of the Legislature. The Utah Supreme Court said, 'No, it's for the Legislature, not for the university."'
    Senate President John Valentine, R-Orem, said he's already put together an informal task force to work with Young on finding a middle ground to the school's strict no-gun law, which started in 1977 and has been suspended following the state Supreme Court's decision.
    Valentine said most legislators want to work with the U. to address communal living situations like dormitories that can complicate the rights of concealed-weapons permit carriers. In particular, school leaders are hoping to keep guns out of residence halls and athletic arenas, said Kim Wirthlin, vice president for government relations at the U.
    "Coming to a university can be a stressful experience, and we're concerned that if guns are in some of these areas, there could be accidental discharges," she said. "People could be injured could be killed and that kind of an environment is one where circumstances could be out of someone's control, so it makes sense not to have guns."
    Former U. leader Bernie Machen started the court battle in 2001. Regardless of what the Legislature decides, Burnett said the school's dilemma sets a precedent of how government entities should go about making policies.
    "The Legislature wants a uniform law across all the state so everybody knows where you can and can't do things," he said. "It could have been any issue."
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    So, they want to outlaw guns in bedrooms. I don't know where to start! Maybe they should just ask the legislature why they are giving out permits for such unsafe items. Those bad, bad people. Does every Utah CCW permit start out with the British licensed kller code of "00"?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Here at Ohio State we can't carry on campus, if someone is bringin a firearm onto campus, it has to remain locked in a vehicle. I have friends at Montana State, and they have a gun room in the dorms, can't keep it in the dorm rooms, but it is down at the front desk and can be checked out whenever. There was an attempt to try to get the Ohio legislature to allow people to carry on campus due to the rampant crime in the surrounding areas, about 20-25% of the student body voted in support of it.
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    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Here is a suggestion, the CCW holder will have to take an extra safety course which includes time at the range, legal issues, holster safety, etc have the course run by the university gun club. Universty can also supply secure lockers in dorms for CCW holders. There all your saftey concerns met for approx $100,000 or $200,000 if you have to build a range.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    In Oregon, it's legal to carry on campus. The universities/schools seem to hate this, but Oregon's preemption clause is clear.

    ORS 166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school.
    • (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.
    • (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
      • (d)A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.


    ORS 166.170 State preemption:
    • (1) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, the authority to regulate in any matter whatsoever the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition, is vested solely in the Legislative Assembly.
    • (2) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, no county, city or other municipal corporation or district may enact civil or criminal ordinances, including but not limited to zoning ordinances, to regulate, restrict or prohibit the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition. Ordinances that are contrary to this subsection are void. [1995 s.s. c.1 1]


    Got to love a gun-toting state.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; December 3rd, 2006 at 06:23 AM.
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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    Here is a suggestion, the CCW holder will have to take an extra safety course which includes time at the range, legal issues, holster safety, etc have the course run by the university gun club. Universty can also supply secure lockers in dorms for CCW holders. There all your saftey concerns met for approx $100,000 or $200,000 if you have to build a range.
    Yeah, but doing that is just giving in to the emotional idiots with no real reason to block the carrying of firearms.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    True but then you get a range and a chance to convert more people to shooting, plus it's destroys their "safety concerns" because as a university they can't really claim that education is not benifical can they?

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    Do you all know what the most frustrating point of this is... that the school is wasting their educational funds and the states money in legal fees to try and get special permission to ignore the law.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    Here at Ohio State there is a range on campus (although many people are completely unaware of this), and several different shooting clubs. As well as classes in riflery, trap shooting, international air and .22 pistol and archery. Although I have no doubt the school would love to get rid of the range, it is also used by the ROTC programs and University Police, and since we pay tuition, they can't very well keep us from using it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    Do you all know what the most frustrating point of this is... that the school is wasting their educational funds and the states money in legal fees to try and get special permission to ignore the law.
    Very well said!

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