2a - American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene?

This is a discussion on 2a - American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Real Title: American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene? Henry Porter The Observer, Saturday 21 September 2013 17.12 EDT My Comments: ...

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    2a - American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene?

    Real Title: American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene?
    Henry Porter
    The Observer, Saturday 21 September 2013 17.12 EDT

    My Comments: Really? We should outsource the US Legal system to the UN? Really? No..............Someone (Hint: The author = Mr. Porter) appears to be Progressivly and self inflictedly uninformed by ignoring actual facts on gun crime...... You be the judge. Post anything in this thread that refutes this, um, person.

    To Mr. Porter, I guess you would gladly give up your very comfy UK abode and move to Bagdad or Mexico City to prove your point on how wrong we are. Let those people protect you, I'm done doing so. So - Go, move, and trust the UN to protect your sorry ignorant butt! I double dog dare ya! Ya betch ya!

    Edit update - @ Mr. Porter... I guess you would have loved Stalin and Mao.......... You seem to think alike, but I doubt, from your rationalizations in your print article, that you're smart enough to have survived them = you are not very useful and maybe a bit dull............other than being a useful idiot for the Extreme Socialist Left (also noticed that your email address is not overtly posted..........coward you are).


    .....The annual toll from firearms in the US is running at 32,000 deaths and climbing, even though the general crime rate is on a downward path (it is 40% lower than in 1980). If this perennial slaughter doesn't qualify for intercession by the UN and all relevant NGOs, it is hard to know what does.

    To absorb the scale of the mayhem, it's worth trying to guess the death toll of all the wars in American history since the War of Independence began in 1775, and follow that by estimating the number killed by firearms in the US since the day that Robert F. Kennedy was shot in 1968 by a .22 Iver-Johnson handgun, wielded by Sirhan Sirhan. The figures from Congressional Research Service, plus recent statistics from icasualties.org, tell us that from the first casualties in the battle of Lexington to recent operations in Afghanistan, the toll is 1,171,177. By contrast, the number killed by firearms, including suicides, since 1968, according to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI, is 1,384,171.

    American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene? | Henry Porter | Comment is free | The Observer
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    Real Title: American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene?
    Henry Porter
    The Observer, Saturday 21 September 2013 17.12 EDT
    Felons' misuse is out of control, actually. Gangs, protecting the 'rackets' (drugs/distribution, whatever other 'business' affairs), and so on. The revolving-door approach to crime control doesn't control it. The plea deals for ludicrous reasons in cases of violent crimes doesn't control it. The imprisonment of low-grade, non-violent persons does little but send them to PhD-In-Crime University, front row seat.

    Has very little to do with the rest of the citizenry, or the mere prevalence of arms.

    About as little to do with Ford or Toyota, with respect to the number of DUI's or outright felonious use of cars as weapons against pedestrians.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; September 22nd, 2013 at 11:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    "To absorb the scale of the mayhem, it's worth trying to guess the death toll of all the wars in American history since the War of Independence began in 1775, and follow that by estimating the number killed by firearms in the US since the day that Robert F. Kennedy was shot in 1968 by a .22 Iver-Johnson handgun, wielded by Sirhan Sirhan. The figures from Congressional Research Service, plus recent statistics from icasualties.org, tell us that from the first casualties in the battle of Lexington to recent operations in Afghanistan, the toll is 1,171,177. By contrast, the number killed by firearms, including suicides, since 1968, according to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI, is 1,384,171."
    Total number of Americans killed in wars since Lexington is actually about 1,321,612. (United States military casualties of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    You can't just take numbers like that and compare the two like they're similar.

    You have to look at Total Killed vs. Total Present.

    The numbers aren't really there to be found, But I can guarantee you that the percentage of Americans Killed in War is a hell of a lot higher than the percentage of Americans Killed in the US as a result of Gun Violence over the past 45 years.

    Believe it or not, your chances of being killed here in the US are still a lot slimmer than your chances of being killed overseas as a deployed service member.


    The author seems to think that "Gun Violence" is something that can just be stopped if you demand it. ("As citizens of the world, perhaps we should demand an end to the unimaginable suffering of victims and their families – the maiming and killing of children – just as America does in every new civil conflict around the globe.")

    Violence perpetrated by individuals is not something that can be simply halted or even resisted, as a civil uprising can. In cases of civil war or uprising, or militant factions attacking cities and peoples, you can send in a military to fight back and resist. In cases of individual violence, gang related violence, and general crime, there is no such action that can be taken. And given the very nature of criminals, there is no legislative action that can be taken, either.

    The author also seems to believe that a lack of action in regards to instituting gun-control is, in fact, complete inaction to prevent gun violence. If you're not for gun control, you must therefore be for gun violence ("Plainly, there's no equivalent effort in the area of privately owned firearms. Indeed, most politicians do everything they can to make the country less safe. Recently, a Democrat senator from Arkansas named Mark Pryor ran a TV ad against the gun-control campaign funded by NY mayor Michael Bloomberg – one of the few politicians to stand up to the NRA lobby – explaining why he was against enhanced background checks on gun owners yet was committed to 'finding real solutions to violence'").


    As with any proponent of gun control, there is much emphasis placed on the weapon, and none on the individuals who commit the crimes. No, the answer is not to ban firearms, or further limit access to them, or any other form of control. And no, there is not any one-size-fits-all approach to preventing violence. In truth, preventing violence is not possible. There will always be violence. And in a country as large as the United States, with a population such as the United States', there will always be individuals that are ready to perpetrate violence against their fellow man. There are issues that must be addressed that can alleviate this situation, however. These include education, the welfare system, immigration, and the justice system. All of these have problems that contribute to our current state of affairs. Until we can move our focus away from firearms and onto the issues that truly affect the minds of our citizens, we'll continue in this unending spiral.
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    If anybody is interested, I have nothing better to do at 3am than math, so I figured up the total population of the US every year since 1968 to get an estimate on the percentage of people killed by firearms.

    The author of the article claims that since 1968, the total number of deaths by firearm in the US is 1,384,171. Since what's important is NOT the total number killed, but rather the total number killed divided by the total present, I added up the population of the US for every year since 1968. That number is approximately 11,418,811,713.

    So then we take the total killed by firearms in that time and divide it by that total population during that time.

    1,384,171
    11,418,811,713 = .00012121848007 or approx. .012% of the population over the last 45 years have been killed by firearms.

    Anybody know how many people fought in all the wars that the US has fought in? I'll give you a hint - it wasn't anywhere close to 11 billion people.
    Yes, warzones are still more dangerous than everyday life in America.
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    Although it was brave of Howard Schultz, the company's chief executive, to go even this far in a country where people are better armed and only slightly less nervy than rebel fighters in Syria.....
    I really don't see myself making it past this part. This author is the kind of useless tool who never should've been allowed to manage the local roller rink, let alone have his nonsense get published by an ostensibly credible source like the Guardian.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    If anybody is interested, I have nothing better to do at 3am than math, so I figured up the total population of the US every year since 1968 to get an estimate on the percentage of people killed by firearms.

    1,384,171
    11,418,811,713 = .00012121848007 or approx. .012% of the population over the last 45 years have been killed by firearms.

    Yes, warzones are still more dangerous than everyday life in America.
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    Perhaps the UN should outlaw CARS in the US and start confiscating those too. Oh, and swimming pools.

    Who comes up with this crappola?
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    I have an idea, let's send our piss poor blue helmet troops to the nation with 300,000,000 guns in the hands of private citizens (the same civilian population that invented and manufactures most the technology the US military uses, mind you) and disarm them.

    Sorry Henry Porter, but there's a bunch of blue helmeters out there failing to volunteer for this mission...
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    Last week, I happened to be in New York for the 9/11 anniversary: it occurs to me now that the city that suffered most dreadfully in the attacks and has the greatest reason for jumpiness is also among the places where you find most sense on the gun issue in America.
    If there wasn't just one paragraph left after the one the above sentence was apart of, I would have just quit reading right there. The comparison to the Syrian rebels was rather silly too.

    I have no problem with at least hearing out others with opposing views (2A and otherwise) but it's incredibly hard to do, at least with any seriousness, when such articles are filled head to toe with nonsense.
    Last edited by blitzburgh; September 22nd, 2013 at 01:42 PM.
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    To absorb the scale of the mayhem, it's worth trying to guess the death toll of all the wars in American history since the War of Independence began in 1775, and follow that by estimating the number killed by firearms in the US since the day that Robert F. Kennedy was shot in 1968 by a .22 Iver-Johnson handgun, wielded by Sirhan Sirhan. The figures from Congressional Research Service, plus recent statistics from icasualties.org, tell us that from the first casualties in the battle of Lexington to recent operations in Afghanistan, the toll is 1,171,177. By contrast, the number killed by firearms, including suicides, since 1968, according to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI, is 1,384,171.
    First lie right there nobody was killed BY firearms, they were killed USING firearms. Same way with so-called gun violence, firearms are incapable of violence of their own accord they are used FOR violence by Criminals.
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    More new new aged, one world ,progressive,socialist gobblygook.

    "Citizens of the world". Anytime I hear crap like that I cringe.

    Anyone that advocates giving up local control to a bunch of socialists in the UN is an idiot

    I don't care much what Brits think, but Any American that advocates that needs to seriously think about moving somewhere else.
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    UN progress on any issue is measured in eons. If they did try to do anything there likely would'nt be a USA around anymore by the time they acted.
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    Let us not forget, that lots of those "pictured' were volunteers from the Great State Of Tennessee.

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    The rest of the world doesn't have the wherewithal to do it.

    If they really tried, I think they would get a markedly hot reception, a hot lead reception...


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