City Youth

City Youth

This is a discussion on City Youth within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm starting to form, what I think will be a very unpopular view on guns. I am a restaurant manager in a very 'urban' area. ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array HAGJewels's Avatar
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    City Youth

    I'm starting to form, what I think will be a very unpopular view on guns. I am a restaurant manager in a very 'urban' area. I see great kids every day that have their lives ruined by obtaining a weapon in the wrong way. They really only have one way in some parts of the city. You can argue that fact but unless you are in a situation, try not to judge.

    So a person now has a record based on one of the "also charged with" laws. They did not use a weapon in the commission of a felony, they did not commit a violent crime with a weapon. They just were picked up with a weapon on their person and have a charge now.

    If you are like me, you are probably white and live in rural America or suburbia. You may even be a gun nut. You maybe wear your pistol in your home, while you mow your big suburban yard. So if you think you need it in the land of white picket fences and Wal-Mart, how do you think a bouncer of an inner city club feels at 4:00 a.m.? This kid has a gun and is stopped for a tail light out. The kid is thrown in jail because he is leaving his dangerous place of employment with a pistol at 4am. Your tax dollars go to support a jail and court system that puts someone in the system for exercising their 2nd amendment right in the environment they are forced to live in.

    I'm not saying cops are bad. I'm saying existing gun laws are. I would loosen urban and criminal ownership laws. I know it's not going to happen but if people in the cities were educated at who is really sending them to jail, they might start to listen. It's more likely your local democratic mayor or state rep than it is your NRA member republican or libertarian 20 miles up the highway.

    I know I'm rambling but I'm hoping some of you can help me decide where I want to go with this. I want to help these kids. Like the guy getting shotguns out in Texas. I want to show them another way.


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    New Member Array VicRyder74's Avatar
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    As an African American urban gun owner, I couldn't have said it better

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    Getting rid of stupid laws begins with getting out the vote. Liberals outnumber the conservatives. The good news is conservatives tend to vote more than liberals. When conservative don't vote because the candidate doesn't support one of their favorite issues, they are giving the election to the greater of two evils. The other way is to support the NRA with going all the way to the Supreme Court over stupid laws.
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    Get them out of the mindset that they need to join in with frineds or a gang. Get them in the mindset that education will get them out of poverty vs. selling crack on the streets. Get them out of the mindset that crime pays and you will get them going in the right direction. Most of these kids have no parent there to raise them to give them a path that leads them to a life of opportunity. So the cycle simply repeats itself. Change the parents and you will change the kids. Rural America and suburbia care about their kids future. Inner city folks think that anyone but themselves should be raising their children and providing for them. That's the number one reason for the cycle that keeps repeating. Get back to the core family values.
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    Member Array HAGJewels's Avatar
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    I have a lot of friends in the city. I can assure you they care about their kids future. They may not be equipped to see the same things you do for your children but they care.
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    First off, if you don't like the laws you are subject to, you can move to a more hospitable environment or you can do everything possible to vote in politicians that will enact or repeal laws that either promote or prohibit personal freedoms.

    Everyone has the same potential to follow the law and carry a gun legally (assuming you haven't lost your right to own a firearm). If you choose to break the law, for whatever reason, I don't see any reason to think the law is the problem. In most places it's pretty easy to get a CCW permit. Sure it's difficult to impossible in some places (NYC, Chicago), but if folks want that changed they need to vote politicians in that will change things; what you don't do is ignore the law and do what you want regardless.

    As far as people in the cities being 'educated at who is really sending them to jail', what in reality you would be asking for, is for people to start accepting personal responsibility for themselves and their community, because that's what is sending them to jail. And I hate to tell you but that just isn't likely to happen. A vast number of those communities rally around the idea that their problems are of other's doing, rather than of their own.

    Your example of the honesty guy who bounces at a club in the bad part of town is valid, to an extent. However it's also not representative of the majority of those stops that end with illegal weapon possession charges, primarily because the honest guy is going to get a permit to carry, when possible, because it's the legal way to do things.

    Inner cities have a number of problems, but gun possession laws aren't anywhere near the top of that list.
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    The OP touches on an interesting point; laws influence how we think.

    For example, most everyone here is probably a law abiding citizen. If not, they wouldnt have CCPs.

    BUT imagine being in Washington DC, NYC, Chicago, and being a law abiding citizen. The law says (essentially), "guns are illegal".

    So, good, law abiding people dont have guns. Guns are essentially like any other illegal item (there), like Heroin, Crack, etc.

    The laws have the consequence of making people who might otherwise support gun ownership, thinking of guns as being "bad". Illegal items that only criminals have.

    The laws actually short circuit critical thinking among law abiding people, on that subject.

    During the Great Depression, 1933, I think, FDR essentially outlawed the ownership of gold, by Americans. That prohibition on gold lasted until Nixon (I think), but it had a profound effect on Americans. Gold didnt exist in the average persons thinking.

    Americans didnt know where to buy gold, how to buy gold, and actually came to think of gold as being "bad". The effects of that ban are still with us today.

    I think that gun control laws, and the effects they have on the people who live under them are like the gold law. Just by virtue of having a law, it adds millions in opposition to us, and our 2nd amendment concerns.
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    If you don't have money for bus fare that includes a transfer to another line, much less food, you don't have money to legally obtain a ccw and weapon. You can argue they could save it, they could earn it legally, they could have just moved. blah blah blah. You go work and live with the people you are judging and then come talk to me about what they coulda shoulda done differently.

    These arguments remind me of Sam Kinneson's old skit where he screams at the movie camera for the Ethiopians "MOVE WHERE THE FOOD IS!!!!!!!!" It's a simplistic and unrealistic answer. I'm looking for the real answer. How can I, as an individual, affect change with individuals to make a difference.

    Do I have to start a kids club about guns? Boy won't that go over well in a society that suspends 8 year olds for pointing their fingers? Do I befriend individuals and teach them one at a time and help them get licensed? I already work a 60 hr work week and that's time consuming and while my husband is amazing, tolerant and supportive, might not be a long term solution. We consider a day at the range together a sort of 'date night' experience since we both had the day off!

    I know there has to be a way. I know there has to be others that would think like me and join me. I just need to pray about it and see if God can show me a way to love these kids out of the hole they find themselves in.

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    As a person who "legally" owns and carries firearms, I have little sympathy for those who own and/or carry illegally. you want something--work for it and obtain it the right way!
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    The OP touches on an interesting point; laws influence how we think.

    For example, most everyone here is probably a law abiding citizen. If not, they wouldnt have CCPs.

    BUT imagine being in Washington DC, NYC, Chicago, and being a law abiding citizen. The law says (essentially), "guns are illegal".

    So, good, law abiding people dont have guns. Guns are essentially like any other illegal item (there), like Heroin, Crack, etc.

    The laws have the consequence of making people who might otherwise support gun ownership, thinking of guns as being "bad". Illegal items that only criminals have.

    The laws actually short circuit critical thinking among law abiding people, on that subject.

    During the Great Depression, 1933, I think, FDR essentially outlawed the ownership of gold, by Americans. That prohibition on gold lasted until Nixon (I think), but it had a profound effect on Americans. Gold didnt exist in the average persons thinking.

    Americans didnt know where to buy gold, how to buy gold, and actually came to think of gold as being "bad". The effects of that ban are still with us today.

    I think that gun control laws, and the effects they have on the people who live under them are like the gold law. Just by virtue of having a law, it adds millions in opposition to us, and our 2nd amendment concerns.
    It's not just the laws though. Take your thought process and apply it to all these 'zero tolerance' school policies. If you want to be frightened by indoctrination by legislation, then that should scare the heck out of just about all of us...
    StormRhydr and HAGJewels like this.
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  11. #11
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    Old Vet, so if the UN peacekeepers show up to take your guns away because they were made illegal, you will gladly hand them over? It's the law, after all. You wouldn't carry illegally would you?
    StormRhydr and ShooterGranny like this.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Thats a brilliant point, TX. Agree completely.


    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    It's not just the laws though. Take your thought process and apply it to all these 'zero tolerance' school policies. If you want to be frightened by indoctrination by legislation, then that should scare the heck out of just about all of us...
    HAGJewels likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HAGJewels View Post
    I'm starting to form, what I think will be a very unpopular view on guns. I am a restaurant manager in a very 'urban' area. I see great kids every day that have their lives ruined by obtaining a weapon in the wrong way. They really only have one way in some parts of the city. You can argue that fact but unless you are in a situation, try not to judge.

    So a person now has a record based on one of the "also charged with" laws. They did not use a weapon in the commission of a felony, they did not commit a violent crime with a weapon. They just were picked up with a weapon on their person and have a charge now.

    If you are like me, you are probably white and live in rural America or suburbia. You may even be a gun nut. You maybe wear your pistol in your home, while you mow your big suburban yard. So if you think you need it in the land of white picket fences and Wal-Mart, how do you think a bouncer of an inner city club feels at 4:00 a.m.? This kid has a gun and is stopped for a tail light out. The kid is thrown in jail because he is leaving his dangerous place of employment with a pistol at 4am. Your tax dollars go to support a jail and court system that puts someone in the system for exercising their 2nd amendment right in the environment they are forced to live in.

    I'm not saying cops are bad. I'm saying existing gun laws are. I would loosen urban and criminal ownership laws. I know it's not going to happen but if people in the cities were educated at who is really sending them to jail, they might start to listen. It's more likely your local democratic mayor or state rep than it is your NRA member republican or libertarian 20 miles up the highway.

    I know I'm rambling but I'm hoping some of you can help me decide where I want to go with this. I want to help these kids. Like the guy getting shotguns out in Texas. I want to show them another way.
    So tell me, which Democrat mayor or rep will agree to step out of line with Party dogma? You are correct that far too many people in urban area cannot protect themselves due to Klan and Nazi based gun control laws which tend to serve the Democrat power brokers very well. A disarmed and maleducated populace tends to keep committing walking suicide. These people are not stupid, I am not saying that. What they are is badly informed, their worst fears and prejudices are stroked and stoked. The schools seem to fail by design .

    Look at D.C. or Chicago. Look at the misgovernance .Look at my New Orleans, we raise ignorance to an art form . Yet to call anyone out for these true crimes against humanity invite catcals, accusations of bigotry and worse.

    Nice idea, good luck seeing it implemented . As long as we have the blatant dishonesty in "Progressive" governance and will dishonesty in the Media, none of this will change.

  14. #14
    Member Array HAGJewels's Avatar
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    I feel the average legal gun owner thinks they are on a morale high ground only because they are currently legally owning. A simple change of the laws could make it illegal for them as well. Then how would you react? What will you do at that point? You know it's the direction the country is heading. If you don't know it, you aren't paying attention like TXexpat and StormRhydr

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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    I have a sneaking suspicion, that as a younger man, you just might have carried a knife, regardless of if it were legal, or not. Perhaps knowing it wasnt legal, but carrying it "just in case you needed it."

    I know I did in some situations. It wasnt to look for trouble, or do other illegal activity, but to keep me alive, should it come to that. And I know I wasnt the only one who did the that.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    As a person who "legally" owns and carries firearms, I have little sympathy for those who own and/or carry illegally. you want something--work for it and obtain it the right way!
    blitzburgh likes this.

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