Gun lobby has misinformed public

Gun lobby has misinformed public

This is a discussion on Gun lobby has misinformed public within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Gun lobby has misinformed public I appreciate the desire of "Your voice" columnist Charles Donabedian ("Seek facts in debate over gun rights," Nov. 28) ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Gun lobby has misinformed public

    Gun lobby has misinformed public

    I appreciate the desire of "Your voice" columnist Charles Donabedian ("Seek facts in debate over gun rights," Nov. 28) to inject fact into the debate over gun rights, and I thank him for his service to our country in Vietnam. His argument regarding the role of the Second Amendment in America today, however, is demonstrably wrong

    I'm not a lawyer, but many learned individuals - including four U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeal - disagree with Donabedian's analysis. In fact, the New York Times editorial to which he refers merely repeats the state of the law as it exists today.

    As a social matter, there is no doubt many Americans assume the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to own a gun. And while the Fifth Circuit repeated that misconception in Emerson v. U.S., it is outnumbered by courts in the Fourth, Sixth, Eighth and Ninth Circuits. Consistent with the U.S. Supreme Court's 1939 ruling in U.S. v. Miller, they understand the amendment "guarantees a collective rather than an individual right" to bear arms. (That language, by the way, comes from the Sixth Circuit, sitting right there in my hometown of Cincinnati, and has been the law in Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky and Michigan since 1976.) The Second Amendment gives states the right to maintain militias - today's National Guard. It doesn't give individuals the right to own guns.

    And another thing: The idea that individuals could have a right to arm themselves against the government violates even a lay reading of the treason clause of Article III, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Is the Second Amendment really a self-destruct button? Of course not.

    For too long, the gun lobby has misinformed patriotic Americans about the nature of gun rights, and has blocked popular means of keeping guns out of the hands of gangsters and felons, based on its spurious reading of the Second Amendment.

    If you weren't afraid your car would be confiscated after registering it at the BMV, then you won't be afraid to register your gun at the sheriff's office. If you think licensing is a good idea before people can drive, you probably think licensing is a good idea before people can shoot.

    Gun lobby politics - not the Second Amendment - keep these measures from becoming law.

    Doug Pennington, a lifelong Cincinnati resident, moved to Washington in June to work for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. This column reflects his personal views.



    Doug Pennington's "facts" ("Gun lobby has misinformed public", Dec 4) fail to pass through the truth filter. I am not likely to swallow this anti-gun KoolAid when a Brady Center employee states so many facts without references.

    When the "people" are mentioned in the Second Amendment, are these the same "people" mentioned in three other Amendments? Does only the state have the right to publish a newspaper (# 1), or worship (# 1), or to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, houses, papers, and effects (# 4), or a trial by jury (# 5), or protection against self-incrimination (#5)? Seems silly to suggest such a thing.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has rules that "the people" refers to individuals, although they have yet to take a strict Second Amendment case since 1939's U.S. v. Miller. In that case, the Supreme Court upheld Miller's conviction specifically because the firearm in question was purported by the government to not be particularly suitable for use by the armed forces. If Miller and his lawyer had bothered to show up in court that day, the case would have most likely been reversed, as short barreled shotguns were used regularly in World War 1. Curiously, Mr. Miller disappeared, and was never heard from again.

    The Second Amendment, written as part of the original Bill of Rights, refers to the National Guard, which was formed well over 125 years later in 1916 by the National Defense Act? Come on now, that won't even get by my 6 year old. The Milita Act of 1792 specified that all able-bodied men aged 18-45 (Note: Not members of the Army) are members of the militia.

    It is the official position of the U.S. Justice Department that the Second Amendment confers an individual right to keep and bear arms (August 24, 2004 Memorandum Opinion for The Attorney General).

    Treason is only punishable if you lose. The Founding Fathers well knew this when they revolted against England, setting a failsafe standard against people like Mr. Pennington, who would take away our God given rights. Remember, the Second Amendment is the teeth that keeps government in check. Makes you wonder why so many politicians want it gone.

    Mr. Pennington's "facts" only serve to mislead the uninformed public.

    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post

    Gun lobby has misinformed public

    ........If you weren't afraid your car would be confiscated after registering it at the BMV, then you won't be afraid to register your gun at the sheriff's office. If you think licensing is a good idea before people can drive, you probably think licensing is a good idea before people can shoot........
    This comparison has been tried before & it doesn't hold water.........

    Look here:

    Here are just a few quotes from it, please go read the whole thing if you haven't already.

    Taking It to the Streets
    Why treating guns like cars might not be such a bad idea
    By David B. Kopel

    Should we treat guns like cars? Handgun Control Inc. has been saying so for years, and this summer Vice President Al Gore agreed. "We require a license to drive a car in this nation in order to keep unsafe drivers off the road," Gore said. "As president, I will fight for a national requirement that every state issue photo licenses [for handgun buyers]. We should require a license to own a handgun so people who shouldn't have them can't get them." Prospective licensees should have to "pass a background test and pass a gun safety test." Gore predicted that his plan would cause the gun lobby to "have a fit.".....

    .....The first thing to go would be the 1986 federal ban on the manufacture of machine guns for sale to ordinary citizens. We don't ban cars like Porsches just because they are high-powered and can drive much faster than the speed limit. Even though it's a lot easier to go 50 miles per hour over the highway speed limit in a Porsche than in a Hyundai, we let people own any car they want, no matter what its potential for abuse.......

    ....Likewise, we don't ban autos because they are underpowered, or because they're made with low-quality metal. If you want a Yugo, you can buy one. So the state-level bans on inexpensive guns (a.k.a. "junk guns" or "Saturday night specials") will have to go, along with the federal rules against the import of cheap guns.......

    ....Most cities do prohibit property owners from storing their cars in an unsightly manner (say, on cinder blocks in the front yard), or from parking too many cars on the public street in front of their homes. Fair enough. Gun owners will have to accept laws against leaving nonfunctional guns strewn about their front yard, and they will not be allowed to leave excessive numbers of guns on the street. (Anti-gun groups frequently complain that there are "too many guns on the street.").....

    ....Once you get a driver's license, you can drive your car anywhere that is open to the public. Thus, we will have to repeal all the laws against carrying guns within 1,000 feet of a school, or in bars, or on government property.....

    ....Faced with the prospect of really treating guns like cars, gun prohibitionists tend to change their minds. They begin arguing that there are important differences in dangerousness between guns and cars. This is true. Cars are much more dangerous.....

    ....A few days after the Columbine High School murders last April, Steve Abrams deliberately drove his Cadillac onto a playground in Costa Mesa, California, killing a 3-year-old and a 4-year-old. No one showed up on television to claim that General Motors, car owners in general, or anyone other than Steve Abrams was responsible for this crime. Politicians did not try to use Abrams' murderous act to create a campaign issue or stir up support for restrictions on law-abiding car owners. If gun owners were treated like car owners, they would not be vilified by smug moral imperialists with the energetic assistance of the president and most of the national news media. Sad to say, that would be progress.....
    A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness is based on the character of the user -T Roosevelt

    If you carry a gun, some will call you paranoid. If I carry, what do I have to be paranoid about? -C Smith

    An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it. -J Cooper

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Good reply. I can only hope that it's printed.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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