2A - “The ATF Cited Not a Case where NFA Firearm Transferred to Legal = 0 Crime!

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Thread: 2A - “The ATF Cited Not a Case where NFA Firearm Transferred to Legal = 0 Crime!

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    2A - “The ATF Cited Not a Case where NFA Firearm Transferred to Legal = 0 Crime!

    Real Title: “The ATF Cited Not a Single Case in which an NFA Firearm Transferred to a Legal Entity was used in the Commission of a Crime"
    Hat Tip - Truth about Guns.com
    Robert Farago on October 15, 2013

    My Comments: Facts Suck (just like actual math) but that does not matter to our current 'Anti-2A' and Regressive Progressive Political class.

    The National Rifle Association’s Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) is fighting the push by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (And Really Big Fires) (BATFE) to make it more difficult for Americans to own firearms covered by the National Firearms Act (NFA). The NRA-ILA’s issued the following call-to-action . . .

    As we previously reported, the Obama administration, via the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, has proposed a new rule governing applications by legal entities such as trusts and corporations to make and transfer National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms. To justify the proposed rule, the administration and BATFE have stated that over 39,000 applications for transfers of NFA firearms to trusts or corporations were received in 2012 alone. Nevertheless, the agency cited not a single case in which an NFA firearm transferred to a legal entity was used in the commission of a crime.

    The proposed rule would significantly complicate transfers of NFA firearms to legal entities. An especially burdensome provision, for example, would create new classes of “responsible persons” for each type of legal entity and require that each of these persons submit fingerprints and a photograph with a transfer or making application, as well as undergo a background check. BATFE seems to ignore or misunderstand that many NFA firearm owners choose to use trusts to hold their NFA firearms and other property for estate planning reasons, one of which is to simplify the transfer of the firearms to the heirs of the owner. Thus, children, including those who are very young, are often beneficiaries of trusts. The proposed rule seemingly would require even such children to be included in its expanded background check procedures.

    My Comments: I cannot legally reprint/paste the entire text here - but you can go to the link (below).

    Edit update = I updated the title to equal that it equates to 'no crime cited' = '0' Crime. My apologies for the poor initial title of this post......... you can now all commence to dogpile me!


    NRA-ILA: "The ATF Cited Not a Single Case in which an NFA Firearm Transferred to a Legal Entity was used in the Commission of a Crime" | The Truth About Guns
    Last edited by ANGLICO; October 16th, 2013 at 08:10 PM.
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    Yep. It's pure dee BS.

    But then, can anyone show me something from the current administration that is not?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    They may not have cited a case, but plenty of them exist. It's foolish to think that every firearm used in a crime was illegally obtained.
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    It's foolish to think that every firearm used in a crime was illegally obtained.
    Remember we are talking about NFA firearms here, not the typical stuff.

    There is no justification for more regulation other than socialists pushing an agenda.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Luckily they havent been... As bad as a shooting with an AR-15 is... Imagine if it happened with an AR-15 with a 13" barrel instead of a 18" barrel. I could see it now:

    Man goes on killing spree with single short-barreled AR-15... Initial reports show 50,000,000 people dead, although this cannot be confirmed by any reliable source. If this barrel had been shorter, there would likely have been no fatalities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Yep. It's pure dee BS.

    But then, can anyone show me something from the current administration that is not?
    Yeah, tell me about it.
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    From Examiner.com:NFA firearms collectors group initiated ATF gun trust rule change - National gun rights | Examiner.com



    QUOTE]The rule change itself, the draft continues, was instigated by a petition from the National Firearms Act Trade and Collectors Association.

    “The NFATCA expressed concern that persons who are prohibited by law from possessing or receiving firearms may acquire NFA firearms through the establishment of legal entities such as a corporation, trust, or partnership,” the notice explains. “The Petitioner [NFATCA] expressed concern that an NFA firearm could be obtained by a prohibited person and used in a violent crime.

    "Therefore, for applications for a corporation, trust, partnership, or other legal entity to make or receive an NFA firearms, petitioner has requested amendments … to require photographs and fingerprint cards for persons who are responsible for directing the management and policies of the entity, so that a background check of the individual may be conducted,” the notice elaborates.

    In other words, the leadership of a national influential collectors group petitioned ATF and endorsed more “gun control,” apparently under the assumption that there would be a tradeoff benefit to them in terms of eliminating a certification some CLEOs have been reluctant to provide.

    As for their concern that violent criminals are going to be using trusts and lawyers to skirt the law, ATF noted “the number of Forms … involving legal entities that are not Federal firearms licensees increased … to 40,700 in 2012.” Despite this, the only corroborating example ATF cited was where an applicant denied transfer of a silencer “subsequently applied to transfer the same silencer to a trust,” that was discovered and the application was denied. Further information about the specifics of the example and the likely danger this posed in terms of increasing violent crime risks were not provided.

    "No criminal would subject themselves to notifying the ATF of their intent to purchase a machine gun, wait six - 12 months to be able to receive the firearm, pay a $200 tax, and pay an extra $10,000 - $20,000 to purchase a legal machine gun when illegal machine guns can be purchased or made easily without waiting or notifying the ATF," Gun Trust Lawyer David M. Goldman wrote yesterday in a deconstruction of a so-called fact sheet from the White House. "This logic is flawed."[/QUOTE]

    I think someone shot themselves in the foot.

    Or not. http://www.nfatca.org/pubs/NFATCA_Statement_083113.pdf
    The situation will NEVER BE THE WAY YOU WANT, it WILL BE THE WAY IT IS. You must be FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO ADAPT and just "DEAL WITH IT".

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    Not that I would ever support any of this bull, but what about the Hollywood shootout.

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    Distinguished Member Array airslot's Avatar
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    Not that I would ever support any of this bull, but what about the Hollywood shootout.
    This is about legally registered NFA weapons. Somehow I doubt that those were.
    The situation will NEVER BE THE WAY YOU WANT, it WILL BE THE WAY IT IS. You must be FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO ADAPT and just "DEAL WITH IT".

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    Quote Originally Posted by airslot View Post
    This is about legally registered NFA weapons. Somehow I doubt that those were.
    They were not. They were legally bought semi-auto weapons.
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    I think we need to tread a little carefully here.

    The case can easily be made that "since all NFA-classified guns have to be registered, and none of the registered guns have been used in crime, then that proves that registration is effective in reducing gun crime." Not something I'd want to see happen.

    I'm too tired tonight to come up with a nearly airtight response to that "logic." Someone care to offer one up?
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    Not that I would ever support any of this bull, but what about the Hollywood shootout.
    Legally purchases rifles that were illegally converted to full auto. Technically irrelevant to this discussion.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Well,if they are going to drop trusts and corps,min hope they do something about the "NO" CLEOs. My CLEO won't sign any NFS applications making it more expensive to live in this jurisdiction. If I can't go around him to legally get NFA gear, sounds like total infringement to me as far as NFA gear goes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    They may not have cited a case, but plenty of them exist. It's foolish to think that every firearm used in a crime was illegally obtained.
    If It was a registered NFA Item the ATF would know each and every time one was used in a crime
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    Not that logic or consistency always rules in government. But since the SCOTUS has decided corporations are people and has decided people have the right to bear arms with some restriction(per them not me). Then if corporations can't have these can anyone else?

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