Even the gun experts have bad luck

Even the gun experts have bad luck

This is a discussion on Even the gun experts have bad luck within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Sailor dies in apparent accidental shooting Police say autopsy is scheduled for today Published Mon, Dec 4, 2006 By LORI YOUNT The Beaufort Gazette A ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Even the gun experts have bad luck

    Sailor dies in apparent accidental shooting
    Police say autopsy is scheduled for today

    Published Mon, Dec 4, 2006


    By LORI YOUNT
    The Beaufort Gazette

    A 22-year-old Beaufort sailor died Saturday night after an apparent accidental shooting at a Marine's home, police and military authorities said Sunday.

    The name of the sailor, who was assigned to the Marine Aviation Logistics Squadron 31 at Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, won't be released until today to provide 24 hours to notify next of kin, air station spokeswoman Capt. Sarah Kansteiner said.

    Police arrived a little after 7:30 p.m. Saturday at a home at 19 Hilanda Drive near the Grays Hill community in response to a call about a shooting, according to the Beaufort County Sheriff's Office.

    Police said another person accidentally shot the gun into the sailor, Kansteiner stated in a press release.

    The shooting happened at the home of a Marine assigned to Weapons and Field Training Battalion at Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, base spokesman Lt. Scott Miller said.

    He said he couldn't release the name of the Marine because of an ongoing investigation.

    Police said they couldn't release any more specifics about the investigation Sunday, but an autopsy is scheduled for today and is expected to yield more information.

    The Beaufort County Sheriff's Office is leading the initial investigation, after which, Miller said, the Naval Criminal Investigative Service and the bases will decide whether they will conduct their own probes into the shooting.

    --------------------

    Further info I got today said the shooter was a Weapons Instructor on the base. Said he knew the shotgun was loaded, but thought he ejected the rounds. Then he just pulled the trigger.

    I am guessing he WILL NOT be an instructor any longer and will have Involuntary Manslaughter charges brought up.

    Every gun is loaded.........
    Know what the barrel is pointing at.......
    Don't point it at anything you do not wish to destroy...

    Some of this may have been familiar?
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Police: Shot traveled through home wall
    Shooter said he was checking the gun for rounds

    Published Tue, Dec 5, 2006


    By LORI YOUNT
    The Beaufort Gazette

    A Beaufort sailor who was killed at a Marine's home Saturday night was shot through a wall in an apparent accident, police said.

    The sailor, Airman Michael T. Boswell, 22, of Chattaroy, Wash., enlisted in the Navy in April 2005 and arrived at the air station in September 2005, where he was an airframes mechanic assigned to Marine Aviation Logistics Squadron 31, base spokeswoman Capt. Sarah Kansteiner said.

    "Indicators point to an accidental shooting," Beaufort County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Debbie Szpanka said Monday, adding the final determination rests with an autopsy that was scheduled for late Monday.

    Boswell and three other friends were at a Marine's home on Hilanda Drive near Grays Hill when a shotgun went off in another room, and the fragmented shot came through a wall and hit Boswell in the neck and chest at about 7:50 p.m. Saturday, according to police.

    Derrie James Kreiling, 25, who lives at the Hilanda Drive home, is suspected of holding the shotgun when it went off, according to a Sheriff's Office report. Kreiling told police he was trying to "clear" the gun, or make sure there were no rounds in it, so he could show it to one of the friends, Szpanka said.

    Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island officials confirmed the shooting happened at the home of a Marine assigned to Weapons and Field Training Battalion, but they wouldn't confirm the name of the Marine while the police investigation is ongoing.

    According to the police report, Boswell and Kreiling had been drinking, and Szpanka said there was nothing so far to indicate it was "excessive."

    When police arrived shortly before 8 p.m. Saturday, they found Boswell "unresponsive," and he was taken to Beaufort Memorial Hospital, Szpanka said, but she couldn't say when he was pronounced dead.

    Police wouldn't release the specific type of shotgun Kreiling had or details on how he said he handled the gun.

    However, Port Royal Gun and Pawn Shop owner Charles Bell said the shooter likely was doing one of three things wrong in the process of "clearing" the shotgun for it to go off: He didn't have the safety lock on the gun; he didn't have the gun pointed in a safe direction, such as the floor; and he probably had his finger on the trigger.

    "That's how somebody got hurt," Bell said.

    Military officials said they are waiting for the Sheriff's Office to complete its investigation before possible Naval Criminal Investigative Service or base investigations.

    A memorial service for Boswell is scheduled for 2 p.m. Thursday at the air station, Kansteiner said.
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Who said everyone in the armed forces was an "expert" about or with firearms?

    I'd like to know how they "shot the gun into" him... I'm picturing a gun that fires guns out of it... a strange image indeed.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Autopsy confirms sailor died of shotgun wound to the chest
    Published Wed, Dec 6, 2006



    A sailor shot at a Marine's home Saturday night died of a wound from a single shotgun round, preliminary autopsy results show, according to a release from the Beaufort County Sheriff's Office.

    Five pellets were found in Airman Michael T. Boswell's chest, two in his neck and one in his arm, according to police, and one of the pellets severed an artery in his neck.

    Boswell, who worked at Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, and three other friends were at a Marine's home at about 7:50 p.m. Saturday when the shooter's gun accidentally went off and shot into the wall, hitting Boswell in the next room, according to police reports.

    The shooter, Derrie James Kreiling, 25, is believed to be a resident of the Hilanda Drive home where the incident occurred, according to police.

    Police are investigating but have said the shooting appears to have been accidental.
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    My post went up just prior to the second one that clarified (somewhat) the events.

    It sounds tragic, to be sure. Can't say yet whether there was a malfunction, or just plain negligence/ignorance on the part of the guy with the shotgun.

    Well, actually, strike that: there WAS negligence, even if was a case of a gun malfunction, because he didn't have the gun pointed in a non-threatening direction!

    I hope he goes to jail for killing this innocent serviceman through his stupidity and negligence.

  6. #6
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    I was wondering how a shottie blast was so destructive thru a wall but ........ as I suspected, " one of the pellets severed an artery in his neck". He may well have gotten away with it but for that. Carotid bleed-out time is not very forgiving.

    Sad as all get out and sooooooo avoidable.

    Rule #2 above all else - rule #2 - it is always IMO the life saver of all the rules, even tho we should heed every single one always.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    Rule #2 above all else - rule #2 - it is always IMO the life saver of all the rules, even tho we should heed every single one always.
    Do I have this wrong? I thought the rules were:

    1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
    2. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
    3. Never let the muzzle cover anything you're not willing to destroy.
    4. Know your target and what is behind it.

    Is my confusion just a matter of switching 2 and 3 from their common positions?

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    "Indicators point to an accidental shooting," Beaufort County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Debbie Szpanka ...
    I know of a couple similar situations where a gun was being manipulated in a hotel and shot through a neighboring occupied room. In one of those cases, the guy was hauled away and charged with reckless endangerment.

    There are precious few "accidents" that don't involve lightning.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Member Array Nate's Avatar
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    You never need to pull the trigger to clear a firearm! What the hell was he thinking?

    And about other NDs and such, check THIS out: http://antiotter.livejournal.com/144625.html

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    I was wondering how a shottie blast was so destructive thru a wall but ........ as I suspected, " one of the pellets severed an artery in his neck". He may well have gotten away with it but for that. Carotid bleed-out time is not very forgiving.

    Sad as all get out and sooooooo avoidable.

    Rule #2 above all else - rule #2 - it is always IMO the life saver of all the rules, even tho we should heed every single one always.
    Check out www.theboxotruth.com and look at the various shotgun tests. That will end the "wondering" part.
    These 2 in particular:
    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm
    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

  11. #11
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    Do I have this wrong? I thought the rules were:

    1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
    2. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
    3. Never let the muzzle cover anything you're not willing to destroy.
    4. Know your target and what is behind it.
    Well my learned sequence puts your rule #3 at #2. Thus my comment. Whether one is more ''correct'' than the other is immaterial perhaps but I would place my rule #2 in a higher order of precedence over the finger on trigger - because I feel it has the ultimate ability to save life above the rest.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Check out www.theboxotruth.com and look at the various shotgun tests. That will end the "wondering" part.
    Yes, certainly penetration is considerable - but not sure here which load was responsible. Probably 00 Buck but, still suspect many folks could survive some hits from the shot if not impacting highly vulnerable structures.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    BTW, the area that this happened in was a trailer park, so it probably wasn't full housing standard building.

    I am sure there wasn't 2x4 wall studs, so it could've ended sightly different in a real house. Also we don't know how far away from the wall he was when it discharged.
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate View Post
    You never need to pull the trigger to clear a firearm! What the hell was he thinking?
    I can't speak for the USMC, but only recently has the Army begun to eliminate the dry fire at the end of clearing procedures. It's not a uniform policy and I've heard of quite a few NDs.

    This was published last year:
    Quote Originally Posted by FM 3-22.9
    a. Point the muzzle in a designated SAFE DIRECTION. Attempt to place selector lever on SAFE. If weapon is not cocked, lever cannot be placed on SAFE.
    b. Remove the magazine by depressing the magazine catch button and pulling the magazine down.
    c. To lock bolt open, pull charging handle rearward. Press bottom of bolt catch and allow bolt to move forward until it engages bolt catch. Return charging handle to full forward position. If you have not done so before, place the selector lever on SAFE.
    d. Visually (not physically) inspect the receiver and chamber to ensure these areas contain no ammo.
    e. With the selector lever pointing toward SAFE, allow the bolt to go forward by pressing the upper portion of the bolt catch.
    f. Place the selector lever on SEMI and squeeze the trigger.
    g. Pull the charging handle fully rearward and release it, allowing the bolt to return to the full forward position.
    h. Place the selector lever on SAFE.
    i. Close the ejection port cover.
    He got a NO-GO on step d.

    In my estimate, he was doing it the way he was trained (unlearning is amazingly hard sometimes) but was negligent/complacent.

    Before weapons go into the vault, they are dry fired to increase the lifespan of the springs.
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

    DaddyWarcrimes.com

  14. #14
    Member Array Nate's Avatar
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    Daddy Warcrimes: I don't believe the dry firing is to increase the lifespan of the springs, because it wasn't re-squeezed after racking the bolt back the last time. I think those steps were put in to combine a weapons function check at the end of a standard clearing procedure (i.e. make sure the bolt cycles while at the end of a magazine [the first time the bolt's pulled back, in addition to physically and visually inspecting the chamber] and during the course of a magazine [the last time it's pulled back and allowed to cycle home).

    IIRC, we never, EVER, pulled our triggers when we weren't getting ready to blow the hell out of something, unless it was to perform a weapons function check during the proper clearing procedure, or snapping in for the range.

    Although, according to the manual of arms (http://www.usnavy.vt.edu/CurrentStud...l%20Manual.pdf ), we DO pull the trigger when going from Inspection Arms back to Port Arms. Oddly enough, my platoon had a ND during combat training after marching around all day after a live-fire exercise. It was around 2000 or so, and we were in formation outside the heads to shower up. Our instructor gave us the command Inspection Arms, and I guess because it was dark out, the kid didn't see a round in his chamber (all his magazines were empty). Upon the command Port Arms, the kid let off a shot, half the platoon dropped to the ground, the other half crouched, and the poor kid had a pistol drawn on him from an instructor not sure what the hell was going on, or if the kid had snapped, etc.

    Not cool at all. Needless to say, we didn't see him again after that night.
    Last edited by Nate; December 7th, 2006 at 01:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    When preparing the weapons for storage, we do not charge it after the hammer is down (skip steps g-i). All stress is relieved from the springs during storage. Bolts forward, hammers down, trigger guard on the M203 freed.

    While it may seem a little strange, squeezing the trigger with all safies disengaged will almost certainly let you know if there is ammo in the weapon. This is all good and fine if the barrel is pointed into a designated clearing pit at the range but I can't recommend it for home use.

    Outside of live firing, trigger squeeze is common durring inspections, weapon turn it, and dry fire exercises.

    6 years ago in Bosnia we modified the manual of arms for guard inspection so that the manual safety was constantly engaged (exception made for the M249).
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

    DaddyWarcrimes.com

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