2A - How the EPA is working to restrict your ammo......Lead no more....... No Joke!

This is a discussion on 2A - How the EPA is working to restrict your ammo......Lead no more....... No Joke! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My Comments: This is a synchronized attack. If you see ammo that you want to purchase at current prices, you might want to grab a ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 47
Like Tree52Likes

Thread: 2A - How the EPA is working to restrict your ammo......Lead no more....... No Joke!

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array ANGLICO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    I'm the guy next door that is polite, but does not tell you crap.
    Posts
    3,485

    2A - How the EPA is working to restrict your ammo......Lead no more....... No Joke!

    My Comments: This is a synchronized attack. If you see ammo that you want to purchase at current prices, you might want to grab a little of it for your future needs. This just might explain why the Gov has been stockpiling ammo for the past few years. If any of you follow or invest in rare earth minerials, you know what angle I am coming from...........Just saying.....


    In December, the final primary lead smelter in the United States will close. The lead smelter, located in Herculaneum, Missouri, and owned and operated by the Doe Run Company, has existed in the same location since 1892.

    The Herculaneum smelter is currently the only smelter in the United States which can produce lead bullion from raw lead ore that is mined nearby in Missouri's extensive lead deposits, giving the smelter its "primary" designation. The lead bullion produced in Herculaneum is then sold to lead product producers, including ammunition manufactures for use in conventional ammunition components such as projectiles, projectile cores, and primers. Several "secondary" smelters, where lead is recycled from products such as lead acid batteries or spent ammunition components, still operate in the United States.


    NRA-ILA | End of an Era: Last U.S. Lead Smelter to Close in December

    Trevor Loudon's New Zeal Blog » Back Door Gun Control Moves Forward

    GUN WATCH: Some Points on California's Ban on Traditional Ammunition
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

    Don't be mistaken for a Gecko45: http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

    Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14qTdp-Dd30

    ANGLICO Images

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array NightOwl76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    491
    While this is outrageous, it's unlikely to result in much more than a bump in the price of ammo. The USA has been in the business of exporting our pollution for decades now, and we always seem to find some other country willing to do the dirty work for cheap. Whether that's right or wrong is for another thread...or forum, really.

    In short, it's bad but it's not going to make me lose any sleep and I seriously doubt it's directly targeted at restricting access to ammunition.

  4. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,837
    It will have an impact.
    The major ammo makers bought lead from this resource. Where are they going to get lead now? From China?
    Consider that the Federal Government has been hording ammo for the last two years. Think that is a coincidence?

    This administration has promised to do what it can do reduce gun ownership. Since they've been pretty well slapped down on every account, they are attacking the ammo supply.
    Its all about supply and demand. When that ammo gets hard to find, it will go up in price and your guns aren't worth much without something to shoot in them.

    Whatever the EPA's motivation when creating the new lead air quality standard, increasingly restrictive regulation of lead is likely to affect the production and cost of traditional ammunition.
    Once again, the Enivornazis have regulated yet another industry to death.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Array Hatrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    572
    Saw this last night and meant to post here and completely forgot. Nice catch.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,981
    Hard to claim the government is shutting anything down, with lead production. Sounds like an alarmist set of articles, seeking to make a point with weak claims to proof.

    When it comes to "dirty" products or processes that have solid negative impacts to the environment, plenty of the "dirtiest" companies choose to read the writing on the wall and opt out of the business while plenty choose to upgrade to be compliant and competitive.

    Coal-fired plants without scrubbers is a good example, as are paper/pulp plants without scrubbers, plants (and even whole industries) that can't see fit to not dump tainted water/sludge into waterways, not go after recyclable alternatives, or whatever the example is. The fall of the "dirty" producers in the U.S. steel industry come to mind, as does Nucor (steel producer, excelling via use of electric arc furnaces and far more efficient methods, which is now the largest U.S. maker based on such efficiencies). General Motors and their decades-long staunch refusal to focus on quality is another, and they've largely reaped the rewards despite many doing very well via improving their offerings, methods.
    Sig 210 likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calaveras County, California
    Posts
    1,573
    New hunting bullets in Ca. will probably be made of Bismuth to keep the mass close to that of lead. Since it is a by-product of lead refining, it stands to reason that lead production must increase. Obummer and Brown can be credited with not only killing American jobs and industry, but also increasing environmental pollution and toxic death in other countries with less regulation, most likely South America and Eastern Europe. If you have a look at the Periodic Table of the Elements you will see that the best substitutes for lead that have a high mass are depleted uranium, gold, silver, platinum, and other very expensive, rare, and/or poisonous metals, but the ability to deform or mushroom is going to be a problem.. They did take the lead out of tire weights in Ca. last year, and paint a long time ago. It does seem as though the new lead bans are a sideways attempt at gun control by those who ate lead paint chips, but for target shooting lead is still allowed in Ca. and will continue to be sold. I guess I will "practice" with hollowpoints more.
    I don't always have nothing to say, but when I do, I post it on Facebook.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,981
    Quote Originally Posted by Arborigine View Post
    Obummer and Brown can be credited with not only killing American jobs and industry, but also increasing environmental pollution and toxic death in other countries with less regulation, most likely South America and Eastern Europe.

    It does seem as though the new lead bans are a sideways attempt at gun control by those who ate lead paint chips ...
    Hm. Claiming getting a handle on lead in the environment is designed as an anti-gunner plot and to increase environmental pollution/toxins elsewhere is similar to claiming getting a handle on mercury is anti-foodstuffs (ie, fish) and a plot to increase the 'take' in fisheries by other countries' boats.

    Seems clear the only rational view of such controls is this: poisons are what they are, and getting some control over them is about ceasing the poisoning of the environment (people, animals, food, land); that comparatively minor side-effects such as impacts on small-qty uses (such as small arms ammo) isn't part of the design or plan of such attempts.

    Let's not go overboard. Stopping impacting products and elements from getting blindly tossed into the 'back yard' is in everyone's interests, certainly long-term. There are going to be short-term adjustments to find alternatives, improve processes, improve cleanliness/safety of existing methods/products. But in the long run, it's hard to keep doing everything that once was done (with mercury, lead and the rest) without consequences. The consequences must be dealt with, at some point. Impacts on products made from such things will be one inevitable result. No real way around that.
    chandlerusm and Rotorflyr like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    5,578
    And wet cell batteries that all cars depend on to have lead in them? About a thousand other applications that have to have lead??? We going back to model Ts with cranks in them to get them started and lanterns for head lights??
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,176
    Lead is the only thing I know of that will shield radiation,not only in X-ray rooms,but in Nuclear Reactors,
    Ghost1958 and Aceoky like this.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    About 235M out of The Palouse WA
    Posts
    7,082
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    It will have an impact.
    The major ammo makers bought lead from this resource. Where are they going to get lead now? From China?
    Consider that the Federal Government has been hoarding ammo for the last two years. Think that is a coincidence?

    This administration has promised to do what it can do reduce gun ownership. Since they've been pretty well slapped down on every account, they are attacking the ammo supply.
    Its all about supply and demand. When that ammo gets hard to find, it will go up in price and your guns aren't worth much without something to shoot in them.



    Once again, the EnviroNazi's have regulated yet another industry to death.
    Good Morning one and all. Please take note it is a tad after 0100 hours. For the non Veterans that's a bit after 1:00AM
    and I'm barely awake.

    I'm gonna have to remember ENVIRONAZI'S. Sounds catchy like Cholera or Typhoid. I never cared much for the card carrying EnviroNazi's. Most of what they've been up to the last 20+years is taking jobs away from folks like me and I'm sure other folks who believe the good Lord put natural resources on this planet for us to make stuff.

    I am plumb wore out and my brain's starting to seize up.
    Firing a suppressed is on my Bucket List.

    I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.

    America...a Constitutional Republic. NOT a democracy as the liberals would have us believe.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,608
    Oh... this is priceless... Our government working to ban bullets because they may be bad for your health... DUHH!
    Warrior1256 likes this.

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member
    Array Pistology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South Coast LA Cty
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    ...
    Seems clear the only rational view of such controls is this: poisons are what they are, and getting some control over them is about ceasing the poisoning of the environment (people, animals, food, land); that comparatively minor side-effects such as impacts on small-qty uses (such as small arms ammo) isn't part of the design or plan of such attempts.

    Let's not go overboard. Stopping impacting products and elements from getting blindly tossed into the 'back yard' is in everyone's interests, certainly long-term. There are going to be short-term adjustments to find alternatives, improve processes, improve cleanliness/safety of existing methods/products. But in the long run, it's hard to keep doing everything that once was done (with mercury, lead and the rest) without consequences. The consequences must be dealt with, at some point. Impacts on products made from such things will be one inevitable result. No real way around that.
    It is a gun grab. The law specifically targets ammo. There is no scientific proof that lead ammo is a systemic contributor to lead poisoning in wildlife or humans. But it prices and hassles some out of the market and casts aspersions on "those dirty guns".
    Take your argument to its logical conclusion, and you give to the EPA total control of the economy. This government effort is the same as the anthropogenic model of global warming. That says that humans are responsible for global warming so let smart saviors of humanity run our lives. The argument is impressive only in its absurdity.
    We learn from our mistakes. Humans progress and succeed better without the political restraints of Malthusian chicken littles ("population is going to kill us") and their unintended consequences. We don't need the EPA to keep us from "doing everything" as we have. We can get along fine without their lies and totalitarianism all for an annual price of $8B.
    Show me where this is Constitutional. Is it the preamble phrase about promoting the general welfare? So bureaucrats grow like cancer to tweak anything and everything because they can appear to mean well?
    Given the source of threats to humanity in history, do you really fear lead bullets in the ground more than an ideologue in charge of an $8B agency with its own swat team?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it."
    Recon1342 and Aceoky like this.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  14. #13
    Member Array EdJean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    177
    Two major concerns:

    1) The obvious, as stated, it's a back door gun grab.

    2) And national security. Having to depend on China and other countries for new lead sources is unacceptable.
    The Old Anglo and Aceoky like this.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,195
    Nothing new here. This has been coming for some time.
    Not a back door approach to weaken gun owners; more side door as it is quite overt to anyone save the liberal progressive.

    The possible lack of affordable ammo may be just the tip of the iceberg.

    Practice Ranges: One of the practice ranges I go to is operated by the DNR. The state has been trying to sell it off to private enterprise with ZERO takers or lookers.
    The simple reason is (3) fold.

    1) Liability insurance cuts deep into the profit margin.
    2) The EPA requires the state to sift and dispose of the expended projectiles on a regular basis. NOT a inexpensive procedure.
    3) The EPA's rules & regs allow modification to ANY rule at ANY time concerning the proper installation of safe guards for the range.

    I looked into the viability of opening a combat type range. Forget it!

    The red tape alone was enough to keep all but the politically connected far away.
    Even if I muddled thru the red tape, the P&L statement had far more red ink than black at the end of the day.

    Just something to think about. jacked up ammo prices and less places to practice.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Maritimes Canada
    Posts
    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    And wet cell batteries that all cars depend on to have lead in them?
    Tu quoque is not really a viable objection, yeah? If there is an actual lead problem, shouldn't it be attacked from a variety of angles?
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
    Wisest. Retirement. Plan. Ever.
    Good thing the March of Dimes worked. How, why?

    Alternately, for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell..


Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

can epa bad lead from being used in bullets

,

epa restricting ammo

,

if no more lead bullets

,

is government restricting ammo?

,

lead ammo maker

,

lead plant closes ammo prices

,

no lead?no ammo

,

no more lead ammo

,

nra and epa lead plant shut down

,

nra lead production

,

nra on doe run

,

where can one find article about epa lead smelting restrictions

Click on a term to search for related topics.