2A - How the EPA is working to restrict your ammo......Lead no more....... No Joke!
This is a discussion on 2A - How the EPA is working to restrict your ammo......Lead no more....... No Joke! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My Comments: This is a synchronized attack. If you see ammo that you want to purchase at current prices, you might want to grab a ...
October 31st, 2013 07:04 PM
2A - How the EPA is working to restrict your ammo......Lead no more....... No Joke!
My Comments: This is a synchronized attack. If you see ammo that you want to purchase at current prices, you might want to grab a little of it for your future needs. This just might explain why the Gov has been stockpiling ammo for the past few years. If any of you follow or invest in rare earth minerials, you know what angle I am coming from...........Just saying.....
In December, the final primary lead smelter in the United States will close. The lead smelter, located in Herculaneum, Missouri, and owned and operated by the Doe Run Company, has existed in the same location since 1892.
The Herculaneum smelter is currently the only smelter in the United States which can produce lead bullion from raw lead ore that is mined nearby in Missouri's extensive lead deposits, giving the smelter its "primary" designation. The lead bullion produced in Herculaneum is then sold to lead product producers, including ammunition manufactures for use in conventional ammunition components such as projectiles, projectile cores, and primers. Several "secondary" smelters, where lead is recycled from products such as lead acid batteries or spent ammunition components, still operate in the United States.
NRA-ILA | End of an Era: Last U.S. Lead Smelter to Close in December
Trevor Loudon's New Zeal Blog » Back Door Gun Control Moves Forward
GUN WATCH: Some Points on California's Ban on Traditional Ammunition
October 31st, 2013 07:09 PM
While this is outrageous, it's unlikely to result in much more than a bump in the price of ammo. The USA has been in the business of exporting our pollution for decades now, and we always seem to find some other country willing to do the dirty work for cheap. Whether that's right or wrong is for another thread...or forum, really.
In short, it's bad but it's not going to make me lose any sleep and I seriously doubt it's directly targeted at restricting access to ammunition.
October 31st, 2013 07:17 PM
It will have an impact.
The major ammo makers bought lead from this resource. Where are they going to get lead now? From China?
Consider that the Federal Government has been hording ammo for the last two years. Think that is a coincidence?
This administration has promised to do what it can do reduce gun ownership. Since they've been pretty well slapped down on every account, they are attacking the ammo supply.
Its all about supply and demand. When that ammo gets hard to find, it will go up in price and your guns aren't worth much without something to shoot in them.
Once again, the Enivornazis have regulated yet another industry to death.
Whatever the EPA's motivation when creating the new lead air quality standard, increasingly restrictive regulation of lead is likely to affect the production and cost of traditional ammunition.
hecks...the next step towards registration and confiscation.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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October 31st, 2013 07:19 PM
Saw this last night and meant to post here and completely forgot. Nice catch.
October 31st, 2013 07:51 PM
Hard to claim the government is shutting anything down, with lead production. Sounds like an alarmist set of articles, seeking to make a point with weak claims to proof.
When it comes to "dirty" products or processes that have solid negative impacts to the environment, plenty of the "dirtiest" companies choose to read the writing on the wall and opt out of the business while plenty choose to upgrade to be compliant and competitive.
Coal-fired plants without scrubbers is a good example, as are paper/pulp plants without scrubbers, plants (and even whole industries) that can't see fit to not dump tainted water/sludge into waterways, not go after recyclable alternatives, or whatever the example is. The fall of the "dirty" producers in the U.S. steel industry come to mind, as does Nucor (steel producer, excelling via use of electric arc furnaces and far more efficient methods, which is now the largest U.S. maker based on such efficiencies). General Motors and their decades-long staunch refusal to focus on quality is another, and they've largely reaped the rewards despite many doing very well via improving their offerings, methods.
November 1st, 2013 01:14 AM
New hunting bullets in Ca. will probably be made of Bismuth to keep the mass close to that of lead. Since it is a by-product of lead refining, it stands to reason that lead production must increase. Obummer and Brown can be credited with not only killing American jobs and industry, but also increasing environmental pollution and toxic death in other countries with less regulation, most likely South America and Eastern Europe. If you have a look at the Periodic Table of the Elements you will see that the best substitutes for lead that have a high mass are depleted uranium, gold, silver, platinum, and other very expensive, rare, and/or poisonous metals, but the ability to deform or mushroom is going to be a problem.. They did take the lead out of tire weights in Ca. last year, and paint a long time ago. It does seem as though the new lead bans are a sideways attempt at gun control by those who ate lead paint chips, but for target shooting lead is still allowed in Ca. and will continue to be sold. I guess I will "practice" with hollowpoints more.
I don't always have nothing to say, but when I do, I post it on Facebook.
November 1st, 2013 01:43 AM
Hm. Claiming getting a handle on lead in the environment is designed as an anti-gunner plot and to increase environmental pollution/toxins elsewhere is similar to claiming getting a handle on mercury is anti-foodstuffs (ie, fish) and a plot to increase the 'take' in fisheries by other countries' boats.
Originally Posted by Arborigine
Seems clear the only rational view of such controls is this: poisons are what they are, and getting some control over them is about ceasing the poisoning of the environment (people, animals, food, land); that comparatively minor side-effects such as impacts on small-qty uses (such as small arms ammo) isn't part of the design or plan of such attempts.
Let's not go overboard. Stopping impacting products and elements from getting blindly tossed into the 'back yard' is in everyone's interests, certainly long-term. There are going to be short-term adjustments to find alternatives, improve processes, improve cleanliness/safety of existing methods/products. But in the long run, it's hard to keep doing everything that once was done (with mercury, lead and the rest) without consequences. The consequences must be dealt with, at some point. Impacts on products made from such things will be one inevitable result. No real way around that.
November 1st, 2013 02:21 AM
And wet cell batteries that all cars depend on to have lead in them? About a thousand other applications that have to have lead??? We going back to model Ts with cranks in them to get them started and lanterns for head lights??
" It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales
November 1st, 2013 02:53 AM
Lead is the only thing I know of that will shield radiation,not only in X-ray rooms,but in Nuclear Reactors,
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
November 1st, 2013 04:09 AM
Good Morning one and all. Please take note it is a tad after 0100 hours. For the non Veterans that's a bit after 1:00AM
Originally Posted by HotGuns
and I'm barely awake.
I'm gonna have to remember ENVIRONAZI'S. Sounds catchy like Cholera or Typhoid. I never cared much for the card carrying EnviroNazi's. Most of what they've been up to the last 20+years is taking jobs away from folks like me and I'm sure other folks who believe the good Lord put natural resources on this planet for us to make stuff.
I am plumb wore out and my brain's starting to seize up.
I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.
America...a Constitutional Republic. NOT a democracy as the liberals would have us believe.
PANTS UP DON'T LOOT!!....A Kentucky Rifle behind EVERY BLADE OF GRASS!!
You know that look women give you when they want some sugar? Me neither
November 1st, 2013 05:59 AM
Oh... this is priceless... Our government working to ban bullets because they may be bad for your health... DUHH!
November 1st, 2013 06:24 AM
It is a gun grab. The law specifically targets ammo. There is no scientific proof that lead ammo is a systemic contributor to lead poisoning in wildlife or humans. But it prices and hassles some out of the market and casts aspersions on "those dirty guns".
Originally Posted by ccw9mm
Take your argument to its logical conclusion, and you give to the EPA total control of the economy. This government effort is the same as the anthropogenic model of global warming. That says that humans are responsible for global warming so let smart saviors of humanity run our lives. The argument is impressive only in its absurdity.
We learn from our mistakes. Humans progress and succeed better without the political restraints of Malthusian chicken littles ("population is going to kill us") and their unintended consequences. We don't need the EPA to keep us from "doing everything" as we have. We can get along fine without their lies and totalitarianism all for an annual price of $8B.
Show me where this is Constitutional. Is it the preamble phrase about promoting the general welfare? So bureaucrats grow like cancer to tweak anything and everything because they can appear to mean well?
Given the source of threats to humanity in history, do you really fear lead bullets in the ground more than an ideologue in charge of an $8B agency with its own swat team?
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it."
Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
-Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)
November 1st, 2013 08:57 AM
Two major concerns:
1) The obvious, as stated, it's a back door gun grab.
2) And national security. Having to depend on China and other countries for new lead sources is unacceptable.
November 1st, 2013 09:36 AM
Nothing new here. This has been coming for some time.
Not a back door approach to weaken gun owners; more side door as it is quite overt to anyone save the liberal progressive.
The possible lack of affordable ammo may be just the tip of the iceberg.
Practice Ranges: One of the practice ranges I go to is operated by the DNR. The state has been trying to sell it off to private enterprise with ZERO takers or lookers.
The simple reason is (3) fold.
1) Liability insurance cuts deep into the profit margin.
2) The EPA requires the state to sift and dispose of the expended projectiles on a regular basis. NOT a inexpensive procedure.
3) The EPA's rules & regs allow modification to ANY rule at ANY time concerning the proper installation of safe guards for the range.
I looked into the viability of opening a combat type range. Forget it!
The red tape alone was enough to keep all but the politically connected far away.
Even if I muddled thru the red tape, the P&L statement had far more red ink than black at the end of the day.
Just something to think about. jacked up ammo prices and less places to practice.
"When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan
Do what you can; then do what you must
November 1st, 2013 11:13 AM
Tu quoque is not really a viable objection, yeah? If there is an actual lead problem, shouldn't it be attacked from a variety of angles?
Originally Posted by Ghost1958
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