Guns and Violence: The English Experience

Guns and Violence: The English Experience

This is a discussion on Guns and Violence: The English Experience within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm reading a book with the same title as this thread. It's about what it sounds like. In a nutshell, there is no link between ...

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    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Guns and Violence: The English Experience

    I'm reading a book with the same title as this thread. It's about what it sounds like. In a nutshell, there is no link between guns and criminal violence in England's history. Nonetheless, political reasons and governmental desire for power slowly encroached on the freedom and even the mandate to arm oneself for defense of self, domestic peace, and security from foreign aggressors. It's fascinating to see how much Brits used to be revolted by the idea of banning private firearm ownership and carriage, and how much that has changed. It looks disturbingly familiar. If anyone is interested in the subject, or political history in general, and would like to join me in reading, I thought we could maybe use this thread for discussion.

    Posting from my phone, I blame all typos on Swype.


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    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    I should add that while records show the reason for banning firearms was said publicly to be increasing criminal violence, parliamentary discussions were always really about the government vs the populace, and never was there evidence of increasing violent crime, but decreasing, until guns were banned.

    Posting from my phone, I blame all typos on Swype.
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    Member Array flphotog's Avatar
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    None of that is a big surprise, the British like the Canadians are for the most part completely brain washed and controlled by their governments.
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    Member Array Dougb's Avatar
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    When the Canadian govt did its gun grab, most Canadians ignored it. Some politicians had an opportunity to try productive careers as a result of their vote. The Canucks have about about 30 guns per 100 population. Not as many as the US of course, but their laws are being recinded as being totally ineffective.
    CSSA Ten Myths About Gun Control. (target shooting, shotgun, rifle, pistol, biathlon, free pistol, cowboy shooting, SASS, IPSC, PPC, IPDA, full-bore rifle, gun ban, gun control, handgun ban, C68, gun registry, confiscation, gun rights, self defense,
    The Canadian people are not antigun. The Canadian government is, and their government has different rules than ours.
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    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    It must NEVER happen here. We the people have a voice. We must use it. Write to your senators and elected officials often and vote. Educate a gun fearing friend. Convert a family member. Bring more into our ranks. Act responsibly and represent gun owners in a positive light. Let's win hearts and votes.

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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    It sounds like an interesting read. I shall look for it.
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    Senior Member Array RicT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brocktice View Post
    I'm reading a book with the same title as this thread. It's about what it sounds like. In a nutshell, there is no link between guns and criminal violence in England's history. Nonetheless, political reasons and governmental desire for power slowly encroached on the freedom and even the mandate to arm oneself for defense of self, domestic peace, and security from foreign aggressors. It's fascinating to see how much Brits used to be revolted by the idea of banning private firearm ownership and carriage, and how much that has changed. It looks disturbingly familiar. If anyone is interested in the subject, or political history in general, and would like to join me in reading, I thought we could maybe use this thread for discussion.

    Posting from my phone, I blame all typos on Swype.
    I read that book a few months ago; excellent book, with lots of specific examples of how the British lost their rights over time. I xeroxed several pages of the book to give to people who were "on the fence" about gun control/private ownership, especially those who brought up the British system as an positive example of gun control!
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    Senior Member Array RicT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flphotog View Post
    None of that is a big surprise, the British like the Canadians are for the most part completely brain washed and controlled by their governments.
    Actually, according to the history given in that book, the extreme British anti-gun (anti-weapon) laws and attendant public acceptance is a relatively recent development. The book traces the changes over time of how that happened, but (IIRC) from as far back as the Middle Ages up until recently, British citizens were allowed arms. Unfortunately, the British did not have a section in their "bill of rights" that addressed this, so it was much easier for the government there to strip away at that, little bits at a time.
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    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    You ARE STILL BELIEVING THE TRUTH MATTERS,,,,
    the issue is power & controlling the PEOPLE,,,, NOT THE TRUTH.

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    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicT View Post
    I read that book a few months ago; excellent book, with lots of specific examples of how the British lost their rights over time. I xeroxed several pages of the book to give to people who were "on the fence" about gun control/private ownership, especially those who brought up the British system as an positive example of gun control!
    Yeah it might have been you that mentioned it and got me interested, I can't remember. If so, thanks!

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    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet1234 View Post
    You ARE STILL BELIEVING THE TRUTH MATTERS,,,,
    the issue is power & controlling the PEOPLE,,,, NOT THE TRUTH.
    Being able to show, "look, when the Brits enacted increasing gun control over several hundred years, they always said it was because of crime, but the records show that crime was decreasing while fears of loss of government power were increasing"... that matters. It allows us to show that in that case it was the desire for power and control of the people that resulted in the laws being passed.
    Last edited by brocktice; November 15th, 2013 at 05:15 PM. Reason: fixed error
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    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicT View Post
    Unfortunately, the British did not have a section in their "bill of rights" that addressed this, so it was much easier for the government there to strip away at that, little bits at a time.
    I'm pretty sure they DID have this in their bill of rights, but it was nonetheless overridden over time.

    Here's a good, quick summary: History of RKBA

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Brits may have a bill of rights... But it matters little... Since ANY law passed by parliament is de-facto "constitutional"



    Yeah, I got tapatalk, too. So what?
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Senior Member Array NECCdude's Avatar
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    I just read in Wikipedia where it states that the royals can't prevent the commoners from having firearms but it doesn't seem to restrict Parliament.

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicT View Post
    Actually, according to the history given in that book, the extreme British anti-gun (anti-weapon) laws and attendant public acceptance is a relatively recent development.
    What do you mean by recent? We had to send them firearms to protect themselves from Germany - which they then destroyed.

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