The Attack on Stand Your Ground in SC Begins

The Attack on Stand Your Ground in SC Begins

This is a discussion on The Attack on Stand Your Ground in SC Begins within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The Attack on Stand Your Ground in SC Begins -> https://scgunblog.wordpress.com/2014...-in-sc-begins/...

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    Member Array JohnCanuck's Avatar
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    The Attack on Stand Your Ground in SC Begins

    The Attack on Stand Your Ground in SC Begins -> https://scgunblog.wordpress.com/2014...-in-sc-begins/
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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    If he thinks retreating is such a good idea then retreat to a country more to his liking.
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    Distinguished Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    The debate is on in Missouri as well.MO Rep wants to get rid of Castle Doctrine
    I will simply quote my conclusion from that thread:
    I think it is essential that Castle Doctrine remove the pro/anti-gun debate. We have to be smarter than the anti-gun progressives. The debate is simply that a citizen is not legally required to submit to criminals. We have no legal or moral obligation to forfeit life, liberty, or property in order to avoid bringing harm to law breakers.
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    I am okay with getting rid of ALL of the "Stand your Ground" laws. Why? It adds complexity to a very simple question; "Was this self defense or defense of others?" That is the only question that should be asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    I am okay with getting rid of ALL of the "Stand your Ground" laws. Why? It adds complexity to a very simple question; "Was this self defense or defense of others?" That is the only question that should be asked.
    I'm not. Most SYG laws don't add complexity they actually do the opposite. Without the laws, your interpretation becomes irrelevant because it then is left up to whatever definition the prosecutor, or defense attorney, wished to try and argue (there's a reason why we have these laws on the books). By giving a clear legal definition, it takes out the individual interpretation of "defense" and "need". I agree with you that it should be a simple question, but as with all law, there's nothing simple about it; especially when there aren't any guidelines to assist "common sense". Also, most (to my knowledge) SYG laws also provide an affirmative defense against civil suits. Without this protection, anyone who was legally justified in a self defense action would potentially still be civilly liable and would receive no legal defense for their legally justified actions. That wouldn't be a good thing.
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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    There is an interesting case going on here in SC that will involve SYG. One black teenager stabbed to death by another black teenager. Both generally report to be fairly good kids that had some sort of beef with each other that escalated into to a deadly fight. I'd love to hear Rev. A's opinion on this one.
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    Distinguished Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    I am okay with getting rid of ALL of the "Stand your Ground" laws. Why? It adds complexity to a very simple question; "Was this self defense or defense of others?" That is the only question that should be asked.
    What about "Duty to Retreat" laws? What happens when a Boston lawyer says it wasn't a justifiable act of defense because although the victim retreated to their car, they still had opportunity to drive away? (or a million other scenarios)
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    Member Array MMinSC's Avatar
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    SYG will never be repealed in SC. The black caucus has squawked such nonsense here before. The guy will get some press time then everyone will forget all about it.
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    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    What is needed most is folks who have NO clue what SYG is (and is not) shouldn't be talking about it - much less trying to pass legislation on a subject they're clueless about.
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    What about "Duty to Retreat" laws? What happens when a Boston lawyer says it wasn't a justifiable act of defense because although the victim retreated to their car, they still had opportunity to drive away? (or a million other scenarios)
    Duty to Retreat laws are as silly as "Assault Weapon Bans".

    From a very wise show; "And don't you ever stand for that sort of thing. Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back. "

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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    There is an interesting case going on here in SC that will involve SYG. One black teenager stabbed to death by another black teenager. Both generally report to be fairly good kids that had some sort of beef with each other that escalated into to a deadly fight. I'd love to hear Rev. A's opinion on this one.
    I would too, but I have a funny feeling that we won't be hearing a peep from him or the other race baiters for obvious reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMinSC View Post
    SYG will never be repealed in SC. The black caucus has squawked such nonsense here before. The guy will get some press time then everyone will forget all about it.
    I wouldn't say never, but I agree it is extremely unlikely to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
    What is needed most is folks who have NO clue what SYG is (and is not) shouldn't be talking about it - much less trying to pass legislation on a subject they're clueless about.
    Agreed. It'd also do a lot of good for people to quit calling cases that aren't SYG cases, SYG cases. (Zman, Dunn, etc.) All over FB I see people calling to repeal SYG laws because "it allows white men to kill blacks with impunity" and they cite the recent high profile cases as examples of it and those weren't even SYG cases. When I point this out, I'm called a racist and deleted...
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    Member Array Sheepdogbubba's Avatar
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    Thank you for the heads up! Time to turn the squeaky wheel up a few notches.....
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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    Agreed. It'd also do a lot of good for people to quit calling cases that aren't SYG cases, SYG cases. (Zman, Dunn, etc.) All over FB I see people calling to repeal SYG laws because "it allows white men to kill blacks with impunity" and they cite the recent high profile cases as examples of it and those weren't even SYG cases. When I point this out, I'm called a racist and deleted...[/QUOTE]

    Racist!!! Where's that darn delete button?
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    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    The truth is this has absoloutly nothing to do with race. I dont even know why the subject came up. I'm not a big fan of SYG as it's written in Florida. I'm not suggesting doing away with it, but I think it could be better. The whole idea of a duty to retreat is foo foo business. The problem is when a questionable shooting where a person acted unreasonably happens. All the high profile cases of late are good examples.

    IMO If SYG protection is denied, or not applied for the SYG verbiage should have no bearing in the criminal case.
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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    The truth is this should have absolutely nothing to do with race but many spend hours and countless dollars making sure that race is exactly what it's about. SYG is an equal opportunity protection, as it should be. I'd imagine SYG most benefits those who live in a high crime areas where being a victim of violence is much, much more likely.
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    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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