Just how far are they willing to go? Nothing but bluff.

Just how far are they willing to go? Nothing but bluff.

This is a discussion on Just how far are they willing to go? Nothing but bluff. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; For the last several years I have heard that the antis are bringing it. That it's just a matter of time. First, guns are gone. ...

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Thread: Just how far are they willing to go? Nothing but bluff.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Just how far are they willing to go? Nothing but bluff.

    For the last several years I have heard that the antis are bringing it. That it's just a matter of time. First, guns are gone. No, wait. Guns are GTG, but Uncle Sugar will just buy up all the ammo with your tax dollars, making your guns worthless. Hang on, they ARE coming for the guns after all. Or not.

    So just how far are they willing to go?

    I dunno. One one hand, proposed legislation has failed miserably. MAIG is dismantling. Ammo seems to be on the rebound. On the other hand, CT is getting ready for a shooting match. NY is a lost cause, CA has been a lost cause, NJ is right up there, and on and on.

    My question is this: would they risk a losing war to get what they want?

    Ever heard of Paul Howe? Delta operator (former). He was on the ground in Mogadishu. If you saw the movie, you didn't see his character portrayed. If you read the book, you know who he is. Now a private contractor for civvies and pros. He wrote an article, the 2nd Amendment and Kool Aid. I found it both informative and comforting. The article states his unequivocal position. The current administration has about zero friends in the military (imagine that). The US, in Mr. Howe's opinion, IS the UN. He reminds us that the average ground pounder is what we are: red blooded Americans. They will not blindly follow orders, especially orders that imperil law abiding citizens, the same civilians that they have sworn to protect. And, in his opinion, neither will law enforcement. Witness Connecticut. They are, by all accounts, backing down.

    After reading his article, I emailed Mr. Howe. I thanked him for his service as well as his article. I said I feel considerably better knowing that I am in good company with men like him. To be honest, I felt kind of on my own up to that point. I saw how the brainwashed people were following their messiah, and truly felt that my kind were a thing of the past. The independence, the self reliance, the taking of responsibility, all were headed south.

    Mr. Howe was kind enough to write me back. He thanked me for thanking him, assured me that we were both many and strong, and basically gave me the best advice I've heard in some time:

    To hell with 'em. They don't have what it takes. Legislation be damned.

    And America has said that before. With excellent results.


  2. #2
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    Array RickyD's Avatar
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    Sounds like he would fit right in here!

    Thanks for sharing!
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Not everyone in the Wehrmacht became a Nazi, but there were enough of them to form huge SS units. While I agree that most combat soldiers and special warfare soldiers would not do anything against their conscience, I do not agree that the military in general won't follow whatever orders they're given, and you really don't need them to either. We're still operating under an obsolete, 18th century, Prussian model of military leadership where the officers can read and write, and the enlisted are illiterate with no maths. This sort of mindless elitism is not by accident, IMO.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    I would like to agree with you. My heart wants it badly, but history tells a contradictory story.
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    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
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    Really to me it would not take much to screw us up bad and still get away with it .. The key here is the old dont put a frog in boiling water idea ..

    You come for the guns all at once it will turn bad very very fast and might even take a lot of the country down with it ...


    But there are a lot of things that can be down with EO and rewriting the rules that would serverly screw us .. No way in heck I am posting any of this .. But looking at CA and even MI there are a lot of things that can go bad very fast .. Just look at what happen in 89 and 93 both were EO ... Nevermind all the crap in CA and the false carrot and stick in NJ ...


    Right now I think the house and senate are too in shamble to do jack but there are EO that would hit us bad ...


    All I can say is

    "Once more into the fray. Into the last good fight I'll ever know. Live and die on this day. Live and die on this day. "



    with a side of
    "May you live in interesting times"
    and
    "only the dead have seen the end of war.'"
    “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” H.L. Mencken
    "Vous ne les laisserez pas passer, mes camarades"
    "We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them."Chesty Puller

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    Here's the big problem. A realistic scenario to co-opt Law enforcement and military, is that they will not be told the truth and be given propaganda. They will be lied to and they would then feel ok about carrying out orders.

    Consider the power of the NSA, it's not just gathering data. But building files and planting data.

    What if several gun leaders/proponents or tea party leaders (or whoever is deemed the enemy) were shown to have terroristic plans in their possession(on their computer)??? Which could easily appear out of nowhere. Or an outspoken gun rights leader waking up one day and authorities come in w/ a warrant and seize computers and mysteriously find child pornography on them, or some terror plans. They are gonna play dirty like that.

    Many of our LEOs and military if told the truth will be on the right side of history. But what if they won't be told the truth.

    this isn't hollywood, the bad guys dont all wear black and run around saying boooohaaaaaa haaaaaaa.

    Adam Kokesh attempted to get 1,000's to open carry march on DC. One event like that w/ one plant to fire a gun would have been a disaster and a reason to nail every single attendee and blame the rest of the gun owners/tea party etc....

    The left aren't going to get our weapons by just honest upfront debate and legislation. Or lying legislation. "Pass it so you know whats in it". They'll lie, cheat, deceive to make it seem more sensible for those to action in disarming. Let's not be so naive. Because the left plays for keeps, they are patient, they believe the ends justify the means. They do not play fair.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    I think the Fed gov for sure wants to disarm everyone. However when you look at it the great huge majority of states arent on that path. Is it as good as it should be? No.

    But four or five states and a the Fed does not a nationwide gun confiscation make. I do not believe as much they would love too that any anti gun politician believes they can move into most of the states try something like that and do anything but create a situation they dare not create nor have the stomach for win lose or draw.

    Where they can do draconian gun laws they will. They also know where they cant and will get told to pound sand. And where they cant way outnumbers where they can state wise.

    Never ever forget the ultimate power rests with the states and the Fed legally only operates as long as the states allow it too.
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    It's been a while, but I seem to remember him from the book. Was he the one who had an under barrel shotgun on his rifle?

    Anyway, I think he's absolutely right. This country has no real appetite for what they're pushing, it's all smoke and mirrors. Sure, we need to fight the fight, but I find it disconcerting how defeatist so many are about it, and who assume our enemy is always three steps ahead with some impenetratable and unstoppable master plan. C'mon, people, they couldn't get a health insurance website to work - we're not dealing with Lex Luthor here.
    blitzburgh, Aceoky and DingBat like this.
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I once read an interview of a war torn and battle scarred Veteran that was asked about gun control. As the interviewer dove deeper into the subject it went something like this:


    Interviewer: When they start confiscating guns from citizens, what will you do?

    Vet: When they come for my guns and ammo, I'll give them the ammo first...one round at a time...travelling at a thousand feet per second...just like our enemies tried to give theirs to me when I was fighting for our freedom and rights.

    Interviewer: How many rounds do you think that would take?

    Vet: I don't know how many it will take, but I know how many I will use.

    Interviewer: Oh? How many is that?

    Vet: All of them. And if I'm still alive when the ammo runs out, they'll have to beat me to death before they can rip it from my still clutching hand.

    Interviewer: That's ludicrous. How can you even say such a thing?

    Vet: You see, these politicians have never experienced the harsh reality of war. They've never been faced with kill or be killed, or having your buddy's brains blown out sitting a foot from you. They've never fought an enemy hand to hand in the stench of death to defend our freedom, rights, and liberty. They believe these are things that they, the government, have granted us that can be bartered for political gain and taken without recourse. The Government did not grant us these rights and liberty. The Constitution does not grant us these rights and liberty. The Constitution of The United States of America and the Bill of Rights RECOGNIZES these rights to be Inalienable, God Given, Self-evident Truths. Men such as me fought and died NOT for any government and NOT for any politician, but for these Inalienable, God Given Rights that are Self-evident Truths. The resolve to protect those rights is as strong today as it was when I stared death in the eye during World War II...against all threats foreign and domestic. Until you and the politicians can say you've done the same, don't talk to me about my rights.

    Interviewer: OK, I think that's a wrap.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

  10. #10
    Member Array Linny's Avatar
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    Look at Connecticut. Only 50k applications to keep their AR's/AK's etc. Law enforcement doesn't want to push it; they know if they do they will be dealing with armed resistance that makes the Rodney King riots look like an angry tennis match. Then when they send the federales in to crush the revolt the media will jump in to televise an government killing its own people. It will make them look on par with Venezuela, Ukraine, and even Egypt/Syria. Armed resistance will sweep the country. Americans are tired, and the harder they push the more united Americans become. There is a CT gun group calling the state's bluff telling them to enforce it or repeal it. It's sad to say, but for every mass shooting that happens in a gun free zone, the more Americans will see the futility of gun control. I was even surprised when my hardcore left uncle told me at a barbecue, "You know gun control doesn't really work. The crazies will still steal and find ways to get guns". I am hopeful. But we as Americans need to continue PEACEFUL civil disobedience.
    -Linny
    Quote Originally Posted by CommonCents View Post
    Here's the big problem. A realistic scenario to co-opt Law enforcement and military, is that they will not be told the truth and be given propaganda. They will be lied to and they would then feel ok about carrying out orders.

    Consider the power of the NSA, it's not just gathering data. But building files and planting data.

    What if several gun leaders/proponents or tea party leaders (or whoever is deemed the enemy) were shown to have terroristic plans in their possession(on their computer)??? Which could easily appear out of nowhere. Or an outspoken gun rights leader waking up one day and authorities come in w/ a warrant and seize computers and mysteriously find child pornography on them, or some terror plans. They are gonna play dirty like that.

    Many of our LEOs and military if told the truth will be on the right side of history. But what if they won't be told the truth.

    this isn't hollywood, the bad guys dont all wear black and run around saying boooohaaaaaa haaaaaaa.

    Adam Kokesh attempted to get 1,000's to open carry march on DC. One event like that w/ one plant to fire a gun would have been a disaster and a reason to nail every single attendee and blame the rest of the gun owners/tea party etc....

    The left aren't going to get our weapons by just honest upfront debate and legislation. Or lying legislation. "Pass it so you know whats in it". They'll lie, cheat, deceive to make it seem more sensible for those to action in disarming. Let's not be so naive. Because the left plays for keeps, they are patient, they believe the ends justify the means. They do not play fair.
    USMC 2009-2013 0341 Pfc-Cpl.
    OEF II 2 Pumps
    Escaped Californian
    My Blog http://renogunblog.blogspot.com/

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Goes well beyond health care websites , look at the USPS - look at the SNAP program - (need I go on and on?) We The People ARE the real Government - it would do them well to remember that - despite all the fake polls they like to cite the reality is that most folks want and/or respect the RTABA - what strikes me as "quite odd" is the more they push FOR infringement the more it backfires on them in spades. THEY have taken many (millions?) of "fence sitters" and pushed them to our side ....THEY have sold More guns & ammo than Sam Colt in just the past few years!!!!

    They push for "common sense " restrictions - but underestimate the intelligence of the people ; folks are not getting behind their "BS" and that is a very good thing for the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    It's been a while, but I seem to remember him from the book. Was he the one who had an under barrel shotgun on his rifle?

    Anyway, I think he's absolutely right. This country has no real appetite for what they're pushing, it's all smoke and mirrors. Sure, we need to fight the fight, but I find it disconcerting how defeatist so many are about it, and who assume our enemy is always three steps ahead with some impenetratable and unstoppable master plan. C'mon, people, they couldn't get a health insurance website to work - we're not dealing with Lex Luthor here.
    maxwell97 and blitzburgh like this.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Gibson v. Commonwealth, 237 Ky. 33, 34 S.W.2d 936 (1936), the High Court stated:  “[I]t is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs.   He does not have to.”

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by multistage View Post
    Ever heard of Paul Howe? He wrote an article, the 2nd Amendment and Kool Aid. I found it both informative and comforting. The article states his unequivocal position.
    Here is the original article: 2nd Amendment And The Kool-Aid Drinkers -- by Paul Howe, Jan 3 2013, @ Wilson Combat blog.
    Aceoky likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Wow. Just Wow.

    Fellows, it's the 21st Century! Do you REALLY think that jack-booted thugs kicking down doors is part of The Plan??? Sure, it might happen in a few isolated instances, but a lot of people's thinking is stuck in the past.

    Why on Earth would "THEY" risk the bloodshed and public outcry, when they can just as easily force compliance with most anything without the risk? What happens when they:

    Freeze your bank accounts, including your 401(k) and Retirement plans?
    Revoke your Driver's License and the plates on your car?
    Put you on the "No-Fly" list?
    Force your employer to terminate your employment?
    Turn off your water and electricity?
    OMG! Turn off your cell phone, Internet, and Cable TV???
    Cut off your family's access to health care?

    Note that most all of these can be done with a keystroke, without a Court order or due process of any kind. A hundred years ago, half of these options did not even exist, and the others would have had limited usefulness. Today, I doubt that one person in a thousand would be able to continue his life with any semblance of normalcy if all the available "weapons", not including physical violence, were used against him.

    Turn in your weapons, OR ELSE! Submit to the search, OR ELSE!

    Heck, I suspect that a lot of people secretly wish that the jack-booted thugs were the only threat. At least the response to them is a lot simpler!
    CommonCents likes this.
    Regards,
    Jim
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    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Methinks that you think "they" have much more authority than they actually Have - and if anyone really beleives they'd cut off that much in tax revenue $$$ well I don't know how to respond , "cutting of one's nose to spite their own face" does spring to mind . We are not talking about a "few' folks here but some say > 300,000 folks that is major

    Turn off your water and electricity?
    Make the mistake of doing that to a protected class (disabled for example) and see what that costs , not to mention someone with health issues -
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Gibson v. Commonwealth, 237 Ky. 33, 34 S.W.2d 936 (1936), the High Court stated:  “[I]t is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs.   He does not have to.”

  15. #15
    Senior Member
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    With all due respect to all of my esteemed colleagues here, I see a lot of saber rattling rhetoric with not much attention paid to voting the jerks out of office and putting in "our people." Remember Colorado and the recall last year.

    Perhaps a foolish question but: Did you vote in the last couple of election cycles?

    Who did you vote for?

    Do you KNOW your congressman/woman?

    Do they know you?

    This kind of rubbish gets started because policy is set by people we elected. Or allowed someone else to elect because we were too damned lazy to vote.

    Elections have consequences.

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