The NRA's amicus brief on the NSA Spying appeal

The NRA's amicus brief on the NSA Spying appeal

This is a discussion on The NRA's amicus brief on the NSA Spying appeal within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; NRA files Friend of the Court Brief in appeal of NSA spying case | The Daily Caller Yep, the NRA, standing around, twiddling their thumbs.. ...

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Thread: The NRA's amicus brief on the NSA Spying appeal

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    The NRA's amicus brief on the NSA Spying appeal

    NRA files Friend of the Court Brief in appeal of NSA spying case | The Daily Caller

    Yep, the NRA, standing around, twiddling their thumbs.. right ?
    EN MI VIDA AL MAL NO TEMER…, POR QUE EN MI CORAZ”N Y MIS DOS .38 SUPER COLT.

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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Good for the NRA. At least the NRA is trying to fight the NSA.
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    Exclamation Update -- DC appeals court reverses ruling; NSA bulk data collection okay

    Resurrecting this older thread, since it seems the most appropriate place to reference the update to the NSA bulk data collection case.


    NSA phone data collection 'not illegal', US court rules @ BBC.com


    A US appeals court has overturned a ruling that deemed the National Security Agency's (NSA) bulk collection of phone records to be illegal.

    District of Columbia judges said the plaintiffs had failed to prove they had been targeted for NSA surveillance.

    Judges in a separate case in New York in May ruled the programme illegal.

    It is not clear what the latest ruling means, as Congress has since passed legislation phasing out the NSA's bulk collection of Americans' records.

    <snip>


    Hm. So, in the on-again, off-again slapping down of NSA tapping of data on everyone, claims against the practice are (now) deemed invalid because individual due-process for such tapping hasn't been served upon the people making the claims. Sounds like a twisted variation on "standing," given the acknowledgment of system-wide data gathering. Sounds like a pitiful attempt to ignore the fact that the "T-taps" exist.

    Guess it's reasonable to violate due process when the reasonableness of searches and seizures is on the line. IOW, you get no due process, if the value of general, widespread search is deemed of interest.

    Glad to see our courts are standing behind the Constitution. (So far behind it, they're incapable of seeing it any longer.)

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Apropos of nothing the ruling makes legal sense. I said this in numerous threads we have had here for the last three years. I was actually surprised that courts originally ruled against the NRA. I don't know how many times it has to be said: one of the key components of whether intelligence gathering is legal against US Persons is if a US Person is being targeted. If the answer is no then there are other criteria that need to be met. Most of these criteria were met and approved by the DoD and the FISA court.

    NRA is not the CIA and they operate under DoD guidance as well as numerous other Intel Oversight statutes.

    I have been doing this for 30 years now and know what works and what does not. Did the NRA push it to the edge of legality? Probably. But I never thought it was illegal under the law. I am not siding with anybody with this issue. Just watching as an amused and sometimes bemused spectator. I stopped being a contractor for OGA's last year.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I just now had time read this specific article. Ya know..sometimes it is so hard for me to support the NRA.

    First, that the NSA’s mass data collection violates the First Amendment’s freedom of association protection because individuals will be chilled from joining certain groups – like NRA
    OK...how many folks do you guys know who did not join the NRA because of the NSA collecting metadata?
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    Hand me the reigns for the day. Job 1, no more BATF. Job 2, bye bye State Department. NSA and IRS would be in competition for 3 and 4.
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    Senior Member Array MMinSC's Avatar
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    So how many terrorists have been caught with NSA spying on American citizens? Zero.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMinSC View Post
    So how many terrorists have been caught with NSA spying on American citizens? Zero.
    Given the need to protect sources and methods, would we, the lowly citizens, ever know if folks have been caught in such ways? I doubt it.
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    Regardless how loud or long the crowd yells, it is not a ball or a strike until the umpire calls it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    Hand me the reigns for the day. Job 1, no more BATF. Job 2, bye bye State Department. NSA and IRS would be in competition for 3 and 4.
    And who would you put in charge if Signal Intelligence for the country? What agency would perform that function if you got rid of the NSA? Putting more oversight and restrictions on the NSA would make sense...but eliminating it...I do not think that would be such a good idea.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    And who would you put in charge if Signal Intelligence for the country? What agency would perform that function if you got rid of the NSA? Putting more oversight and restrictions on the NSA would make sense...but eliminating it...I do not think that would be such a good idea.
    ^ This.

    Keeping tabs on the clearly dangerous sorts is a vital aspect of law enforcement, of international engagement, of guarding against war, and all the rest. But there must be clear and severe areas of oversight where violations and abuse are kept to an absolute minimum, where judges are denied the "rubber stamp" ability and where it's meaningful in clear sight of the citizens' representatives. So long as it's in the shadows completely, unrelated to specific due-process on specific individuals, and so long as the general "T-tap" broad sweeping up of traffic is allowable, we'll continue to be at risk of who knows what. We can have both; and if liberty is to survive, it's vital we don't compromise on this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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