Hobby Lobby and the 2nd

This is a discussion on Hobby Lobby and the 2nd within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So if the SCOTUS rules against Hobby Lobby and says an individual's right trumps the company's right does that mean a company will not be ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35
Like Tree55Likes

Thread: Hobby Lobby and the 2nd

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Left Coast
    Posts
    822

    Hobby Lobby and the 2nd

    So if the SCOTUS rules against Hobby Lobby and says an individual's right trumps the company's right does that mean a company will not be allowed to ban CC?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,055
    For those who have no idea who or what "Hobby Lobby" is: click.

    The Hobby Lobby success story is a true example of the American dream. Now the Greens want to live another American dream: that every American, including business owners like the Greens, should be free to live and do business according to their beliefs.

    The HHS mandate requires the family-owned business to provide insurance coverage for the “morning after pill” and “week after pill” contrary to their religious convictions or pay fines to the IRS. The Greens believe that Hobby Lobby cannot fulfill its mission while paying for these drugs (the “morning after pill” and “week after pill”) that conflict with their beliefs. That is why on Wednesday, Sept. 12, Hobby Lobby filed suit in an effort to defend its constitutional freedom to carry out its mission in a way consistent with its owners’ religious principles.


    <snip>


    Interesting lawsuit, with implications that could potentially affect all civil rights, potentially affecting the governing few's ability to dictate terms of compliance to the citizens. It'll be interesting to see how that pans out.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #3
    Member Array Maxwell47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    366
    The bigger question might be: Does the Affordable Care act violate the First Amendment?
    OD* likes this.
    I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain

  5. #4
    Ex Member Array Longstreet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    741
    A ruling against HL would have far-reaching implications. Betting money is on the Court to side with HL (probably in the now familiar 5-4 split.) The liberal media is working tirelessly to try to sway public opinion.
    Last edited by Longstreet; March 25th, 2014 at 10:19 PM.
    CWOUSCG and Pete63 like this.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,055
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell47 View Post
    The bigger question might be: Does the Affordable Care act violate the First Amendment?
    IMO, no more than highway taxes or vehicle property taxes do.
    CWOUSCG likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #6
    Member Array F350_6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    For those who have no idea who or what "Hobby Lobby" is:
    And for those who want to know more about Hobby Lobby than the news will bother to tell you, here's the other company they started after they became successful. They typically use the Hobby Lobby name and draw to negotiate a lease and put in one of these stores next door.

    About Us, Mardel History | Mardel
    Pete63 likes this.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Left Coast
    Posts
    822
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell47 View Post
    The bigger question might be: Does the Affordable Care act violate the First Amendment?
    I believe that is what this case is about.

  9. #8
    Ex Member Array Longstreet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by CWOUSCG View Post
    I believe that is what this case is about.
    There is an act from the 90's (93 I think) that is going to be key to how this ends up. It's title is basically the "Religious Freedoms Act" and it said, very generally, that any federal law from then forward must be enacted in such a way as to have the most minimal effect possible on religious freedoms. Key will be whether a business is perceived to be covered by the act or was the intent to protect individuals. Justice Kennedy has already referenced the act several times in regards to this case and, as he has been seemingly forever, Kennedy will likely be in the swing on this vote. Given his previous votes on related types of cases, it seems likely he will side with the conservative wing and HL (and Conestoga) will win their day in court.

    What does any of that mean for 2A rights? Probably nothing at all.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    5,630
    The Affordable Care Act violates about anything you can name from the Constitution to common sense and everything in between.
    Aceoky, Paladin3840 and OD* like this.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,577
    IBTL -- an almost pure political discussion.

    Anyway, if the court rules against HL it certainly would not mean that "a company will not be allowed to ban CC?" To the contrary, a company could ban CC or even gun ownership by its employees solely based on the religious convictions of the CEO of the company.

    As a practical matter nothing at all would change regarding gun owner rights. The HL case has nothing whatsoever to do with gun owner rights in any way.

    But since the OP asked, an HL victory would open up a Pandora's box of religiously based discriminatory acts.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    Sig 210, OPFOR, suntzu and 2 others like this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Left Coast
    Posts
    822
    Quote Originally Posted by Longstreet View Post
    There is an act from the 90's (93 I think) that is going to be key to how this ends up. It's title is basically the "Religious Freedoms Act" and it said, very generally, that any federal law from then forward must be enacted in such a way as to have the most minimal effect possible on religious freedoms. Key will be whether a business is perceived to be covered by the act or was the intent to protect individuals. Justice Kennedy has already referenced the act several times in regards to this case and, as he has been seemingly forever, Kennedy will likely be in the swing on this vote. Given his previous votes on related types of cases, it seems likely he will side with the conservative wing and HL (and Conestoga) will win their day in court.
    Interesting, I don't recall that act from the 90s.

    I have not had a chance to see the transcript from today yet but what little I've heard it seems to be going in HL's way. I hope so, even tho I posted a question from the opposite side of the argument!

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,055
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    IBTL -- an almost pure political discussion.
    Only if folks drive it that direction.

    Interesting question, the impact on civil liberties and most specifically the unconstitutional dictates against the 2A.
    CWOUSCG likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Left Coast
    Posts
    822
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    IBTL -- an almost pure political discussion.

    Anyway, if the court rules against HL it certainly would not mean that "a company will not be allowed to ban CC?" To the contrary, a company could ban CC or even gun ownership by its employees solely based on the religious convictions of the CEO of the company.

    As a practical matter nothing at all would change regarding gun owner rights. The HL case has nothing whatsoever to do with gun owner rights in any way.

    But since the OP asked, an HL victory would open up a Pandora's box of religiously based discriminatory acts.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    First off I'm not wishing for anything here. Just to be clear.
    Second, I'm not sure you and I see this the same way. Looks to me like if HL is ruled against they would be required to go against their personal beliefs and give the employee something they do not approve of. IOW, the individual right to contraception (CC) would trump the company right to not provide contraception (anti CC).
    Aceoky likes this.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Left Coast
    Posts
    822
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    The Affordable Care Act violates about anything you can name from the Constitution to common sense and everything in between.
    You and I agree 100% on this. Unfortunately SCOTUS does not.

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,577
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Only if folks drive it that direction.

    Interesting question, the impact on civil liberties and most specifically the unconstitutional dictates against the 2A.
    It is inherently a political issue and not a 2A issue. Gun owner rights will be unaffected, either way, which I think is what the OP was concerned with.

    Let's see, if HL wins, how many other laws, rules, regulations, will they/others be able to claim violate their particular interpretation of scripture?

    Worse, the whole case turns on the notion of corporations being persons endowed with rights, and that idea is absurd.

    Here's how it could play out--
    BP refuses to clean up its oil spill or allow others to work at cleaning that up because some of the work is taking place on The Sabbath, and that somehow
    violates their CEO's (and hence company's) religious rights. Sound absurd? Well it is. Just as absurd as for example, "our employees may not own firearms as that would violate our corporate religious conscience against going armed."

    Corporations do not have rights endowed by their Creator. They have rights given to them by the government which allowed them to apply for incorporation,
    and granted them a charter.

    If HL wins, our nation will eventually deeply regret the decision.
    WyoShooter likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

hobby lobby allows concealed weapons

Click on a term to search for related topics.