Ohio requires CCwers to fess up to Paramedics?

Ohio requires CCwers to fess up to Paramedics?

This is a discussion on Ohio requires CCwers to fess up to Paramedics? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Oops I meant Nebraska, cannot edit the title of the thread. Sorry! Never heard of that in any other state, but not a bad idea, ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Ohio requires CCwers to fess up to Paramedics?

    Oops I meant Nebraska, cannot edit the title of the thread. Sorry!

    Never heard of that in any other state, but not a bad idea, I'd hate to be doing a physical exam and find one by accident!

    http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...e501388951.txt

    Many law enforcement officers are uneasy about concealed carry, Brooks said, and likely will remain so for some time. If a permit-holder is stopped by a police officer, the permit-holder must, by law, immediately inform the officer about the permit and handgun, he said. The same disclosure requirement applies to paramedics or other emergency personnel.

    Class confronts students with responsibility of carrying a concealed handgun
    By JOE DUGGAN / Lincoln Journal Star
    Saturday, Dec 30, 2006 - 11:56:12 pm CST
    COLUMBUS — “FIRE.” The 9 mm pistol jolted my hands, a haze of smoke hung in the air and a pair of dark holes appeared in a target shaped like a humongous bowling pin about three feet away.

    “FIRE,” the instructor’s voice barked from a bullhorn.

    The gun jumped again, and this time, I glimpsed a spent cartridge ejected from the gun of the student next to me. “CEASE FIRE. UNLOAD AND REHOLSTER. DO IT SAFE, GUYS.”

    My arms felt heavy and reacted slowly. I really had to concentrate on the black metal gun as I ejected the magazine, closed the slide and returned it to the holster.

    I didn’t want to mess this up.

    Ken Brooks Jr., a certified firearm instructor in Columbus, gave the orders during the live fire portion of the state’s Handgun Training and Safety Course last week. I was among 20 students who paid $99 to take the course, a prerequisite to getting a permit to carry a concealed handgun.

    The Legislature passed the concealed carry law earlier this year and on Wednesday, the Nebraska State Patrol will begin accepting applications for permits.

    Nebraska is one of the last states to pass a version of the law, which is one measure of its controversy. Those who support concealed carry say they want to protect themselves from the lethal threat posed by armed criminals. Those opposed say allowing civilians to carry hidden handguns will only increase the danger of injury or death for bystanders.

    This story doesn’t revisit the debate. Instead, it describes the course that determines whether those seeking permits understand gun safety and have the basic skills to safely handle handguns.

    Brooks, one of five instructors certified to teach the course in Nebraska, was apprehensive when I asked to enroll with the intention of writing about the course. Like many firearm owners, he is suspicious of reporters and believes most hold uninformed biases against guns.

    I told him I’m a gun owner and hunter, and tried to assure him I am not biased one way or the other. He agreed to let me in, with some reservations.

    Brooks directs a martial arts academy and defensive tactics training business in downtown Columbus. He has served as a trainer or consultant to local and federal law enforcement agencies and has taught certified firearm classes to law enforcement and civilians for more than 25 years.

    The class started at 8 a.m. at the academy. Although about 20 percent of the students in his three previous classes were women, everybody in Wednesday’s class was male. I’m 40, and I’d guess about half of the students were younger than me and half were older.

    Brooks introduced himself and explained the primary goal of the class was to teach handgun safety. Secondarily, he would instruct defensive shooting techniques.

    The first four hours emphasized safety, both physical and mental.

    While the atmosphere was cordial and relaxed, Brooks quickly reminded us the subject was deadly serious. Carrying a concealed handgun requires a tremendous amount of responsibility. Under state law, deadly force can only be used to protect life and limb or to prevent serious assault, death, kidnapping or sexual assault of another person.

    If permit-holders can get away safely, they must. Packing a handgun means conceding arguments and backing down. It means telling an antagonistic person you don’t want trouble, then leaving. And it requires being aware of potential conflicts so they can be bypassed before they escalate.

    “You must try your best to avoid trouble,” Brooks said. “One confrontation will alter your life forever, and it’s a very good chance it will not be a change for the better.”

    One student asked when he should draw his handgun to diffuse a threatening situation. The answer: never. The only time to draw a handgun is when your life is in immediate danger and you have no other way to stop the threat, Brooks said.

    Holding a concealed handgun permit is not the same as being deputized, and it doesn’t make you Starsky or Hutch.

    “If you have a .357 against somebody with a big mouth, who’s going to win? You are. So there is no reason to confront the big mouth.

    “A gun does not give you more power over anybody else, it gives you more of a chance to get in trouble.”

    Permit-holders have an obligation to train regularly. By using plastic dummy rounds and standing in front of a mirror at home, they should routinely practice shooting techniques until they become hard-wired. You won’t be able to think methodically under the extreme stress of a life-threatening attack.

    Permit-holders must follow up their dry-firing practice with live-firing time on the range.

    Handgun carriers also must keep their guns in top condition, both to prevent accidental discharges and ensure the gun will work properly if needed.

    And the instructor repeatedly stressed the need to keep guns secure, so they don’t fall into the hands of children or criminals.

    We loaded dummy rounds — no live ammo allowed in the classroom — and practiced the seven steps to stop a lethal threat.

    * Sweep away the clothing that conceals the handgun.

    * Grip the handgun.

    * Draw it from the holster.

    * Rotate the gun toward the threat.

    * Extend the arms.

    * Aim at center mass.

    * Fire and follow through.

    Brooks told us most defensive weapon encounters occur at three feet or less, so extending the arms isn’t always possible.

    If the first shot in the torso doesn’t stop the assailant, aim lower and fire again, he said. Shooting at the head presents a greater chance for a miss and hurting or killing a bystander.

    “This is not SWAT training guys,” he said. “This is civilian defense training.”

    After lunch, Brooks went into detail about the new law. He discussed the long list of requirements for applicants, which include that they have no history of felony or domestic violence, that they be mentally healthy, U.S. citizens, Nebraska residents, 21 or older and able to legally own a handgun.

    Nebraska law allows cities and villages to set their own ordinances regarding concealed handguns, he said. It’s up to permit-holders to know whether they can legally carry their guns in a given city.

    Brooks said the list of public places the law allows permit holders to carry handguns is shorter than the list of where they’re banned. The banned list includes schools, courthouses, banks, churches, emergency rooms, professional or collegiate sporting events and bars. Any business can ban concealed handguns by posting a sign near entrances.

    Many law enforcement officers are uneasy about concealed carry, Brooks said, and likely will remain so for some time. If a permit-holder is stopped by a police officer, the permit-holder must, by law, immediately inform the officer about the permit and handgun, he said. The same disclosure requirement applies to paramedics or other emergency personnel.

    “My assumption will be everybody is armed,” Brooks said. “Why do I assume that? Because that’s what police are going to have to do.”

    ***

    After a review, we took a test written by the Nebraska State Patrol, 30 multiple choice questions. We could miss nine and still pass. Most missed zero, and nobody got more than one wrong.

    We spent the final two hours on the range. Before we loaded our guns, Brooks told us we needed to put at least 21 of 30 shots in the FBI qualification target, the one that looks like the big bowling pin. He predicted everyone would likely achieve the requisite hits, and again stressed he would judge us on safety.

    A serious safety violation, such as an accidental discharge, would disqualify a student from certification.

    We shot in groups of five. Most handled their guns smoothly and accurately, but a few struggled to remove them from their holsters.

    During the preliminary rounds, some students — including me — failed to properly chamber rounds or had rounds that didn’t fire. The revolver of one student stopped working, and he had to borrow a gun to finish the class.

    Brooks reminded us that in real life, had we been under attack, misfires and empty chambers would have cost us our lives.

    In the end, we all qualified and received our certificates, which means we can apply for permits with the State Patrol. The agency predicts it will take about two weeks before the first permits will be authorized and activated.

    While no survey of the students was conducted, I suspect all of them will spend the $100 for a permit. But in response to a question from Brooks, about half said they may not carry a handgun in public.

    After we left the range, some of the students talked about why they want a permit. One said personal security. Another mentioned a cousin who was murdered and how he doesn’t want to be a victim. A couple of the others said they want to carry handguns while they’re traveling on the road.

    I thought about it a lot in the last few days and decided even if I do get the permit, I won’t carry. I’m just not willing to accept the responsibility of keeping a loaded handgun in public.

    I imagine people on both sides of this polarized issue will view my decision through their own filters. Gun advocates might call me a coward, while the antis might crow that I had second thoughts after having gone through the course.

    My choice does not mean others can’t handle the responsibility of carrying a handgun. It means I’m being honest with myself in knowing I’m not one of them.

    Reach Joe Duggan at 473-7239 or jduggan@journalstar.com.

    Concealed carry law

    For more information about the concealed handgun law and application requirements, go to the Nebraska State Patrol Web site at www.nsp.state.ne.us.
    Last edited by paramedic70002; January 1st, 2007 at 07:55 AM. Reason: Mistake in title
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I found the relevant code. All those against surrendering your firearm better stay out of Nebraska!

    http://www.nsp.state.ne.us/Docs/form...s_and_Regs.pdf page 20

    019.02 A permit holder carrying a concealed handgun who is officially contacted by
    any peace officer or emergency services personnel must immediately inform
    the peace officer or emergency service personnel of the concealed handgun
    unless physically unable to do so.
    019.03 A peace officer or emergency service personnel making contact with the
    permit holder may determine that securing the handgun is necessary for the
    safety of any person present. If requested, the permit holder must
    immediately surrender or secure the handgun for safekeeping as ordered by
    the peace officer or emergency service personnel until a determination has
    been made that there is no concern for safety and that the permit holder will
    not be detained for law violations or medical treatment. If the permit holder is
    transported for treatment by emergency service personnel, the handgun is to
    be turned over to a peace officer as soon as it is feasible to do so. The peace
    officer will provide the permit holder with a receipt for the handgun which
    will include make, model, caliber, and serial number
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  3. #3
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    They are required to return it if nothing untoward has happened, aren't they?

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Is there anything that says the handgun will be returned to the permit holder after medical treatment is concluded? Or will the permit holder need to fight the PD bureaucracy to retrieve his property?

  5. #5
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    I know this...

    if they are legally required to turn over the CCW's to "emergency service personnel" they had better be trained to accept any weapon and be able to render it "safe".

    The first ambulance jockey or EMT that has a negligent discharge on duty because someone is complying with the law is going to have a rude awakening.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    Ya I would really not want to be shot with my own gun because a paramedic didn't know how to make it safe properly.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    As they will normally do a full body exam, they should find the gun, so far better to tell them beforehand. Mind you we transport a patient from a beach in our hovercraft given to us by the ambulance service and doing the exam I found a glock that they had missed, the guy had a head wound and was getting delerious, the police took a great deal of interest when we delivered him.

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