A conversation at work

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Thread: A conversation at work

  1. #1
    Member Array seattlekos's Avatar
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    A conversation at work

    My cubicle is in a small aisle with two others. The girl that sits next to me, between me and a guy, asked us what the word is for someone who's not conservative and not liberal. I told her, "Moderate." She said, "No, that's not it."

    I told her, "I'm a moderate. I hold some views that some consider conservative, and some consider liberal. For example, I'm all for our right to keep and bear arms."

    The guy on her other side asked sharply, "Why?"

    Me: "'Why?'"
    Him: "Yeah, I asked first."
    Me: "Well, because it's in our Constitution, that's why."
    Him: "NO, it doesn't say that, it says..."
    Me: "I know, it says 'militia.' But if you're going to use that argument, then you need to go by their definition of 'militia.' Last I heard, that was MEN who were aged 16 to 45. Are you saying WOMEN shouldn't have the right to carry guns?"

    All this time, we're talking over this young girl (she's only 19), getting louder and louder. I laughed before we could go any further and said, "See why I don't discuss things like this at work?" which effectively ended the "discussion." We've chosen not to bring it up again, because we usually get along just fine otherwise.

    (Just wanted to add, the definition of "militia" I cited in the conversation is something I read some time ago. I'm not entirely sure of its validity, however.)

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Good story now her now invite her to a local range and let her experience how much fun it is to shoot, I recommend an nice .22, and when she turns 21 she can go for her CPL, this may just save her life someday.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    George Mason said, "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public servants."

    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. -Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

    The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves in all cases to which they think themselves competent, or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press.-Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), letter to John Cartwright, 1824

    But to prohibit the citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm, except upon his own premises or when on a journey traveling through the country with baggage, or when acting as or in aid of an officer, is an unwarranted restriction upon his constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.-Wilson v. State, 33 Ark. 557, 560, 34 Am. Rep. 52 (1878)

    The right of the whole people, young and old, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained, the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to a free state.
    Nunn v. State, 1 Kelly 243 (Ga. 1846)

    The whole of that Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals...[I]t establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.-Albert Gallatin, (17611849), American financier and public official, letter to Alexander Adddison, October 7, 1789

    Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used, and that definite safety rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved always to be possible.-Hubert H. Humphrey (1911-1978), U.S. Senator and Vice President, GUNS Magazine, February 1960

    The Second Amendment states that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed," period. There is no mention of magazine size, rate of fire or to what extent these arms may resemble assault rifles. All rifles were assault rifles in those days. Furthermore, if the gun laws that Massachusetts has now had been in force in 1776, we'd all be Canadians, and you know what kind of weather Canada has.-P. J. O'Rourke (b. 1947), U.S. journalist. Parliament of Whores (1991)

    "The claim and exercise of a Constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." - Miller v US, 230 F 2d 486, 489.

    "The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in fill possession of them." - Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliott, Debates at page 646.

    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers, pages 184-188.

    "Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense..." - John Adams, A defense of the Constitutions of the Government of the USA, 471(1788)

    "To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." - Richard Henry Lee writing in "Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic"
    these are but a few quotes from smarter people than I, that pertain to the Second Amend.

    for some additional material look here:
    http://www.gunowners.org/fs9402.htm

    submitters note: The original intent of the Founders was to NOT have a standing army, controlled by the government. The defense of the country would be from it's citizens.....you & me (the people comprised the 'militia'). Since that was their intent, doesn't it logically follow, that we should be ARMED?
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    You know I love those quotes it really shoots the anti in the foot when they try and tell you no one in the past thought it a individual right and that it is a recent idea.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    submitters note: The original intent of the Founders was to NOT have a standing army, controlled by the government. The defense of the country would be from it's citizens.....you & me (the people comprised the 'militia'). Since that was their intent, doesn't it logically follow, that we should be ARMED?
    (Sarcasm) Now, goawayfarm, how many times do you need to be told...stop making sense! (Sarcasm off)

    Thanks for the great quotes!

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    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Every member of these boards should have read; if not own a copy of Stephen P. Halbrook’s book THAT EVERY MAN BE ARMED; Halbrook is perhaps the leading expert on the second amendment and lays out an excellent argument.

    Here is my favorite quote from the Federalist Papers, #46 MADISON...
    http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed46.htm

    The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.
    The purpose of the second amendment is only partially so we can protect ourselves from criminals and outside invaders; but a primary aim is so that we can protect ourselves FROM OUR OWN GOVERNMENT

    I use to have a bumper sticker that read "IF THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T TRUST ME WITH MY GUNS; SHOULD I TRUST THEM WITH THEIR GUNS?"

    Or this quote from Federalist #29 HAMILTON ...
    "The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious, if it were capable of being carried into execution... To attempt a thing which would abridge the mass of labor and industry to so considerable an extent, would be unwise: and the experiment, if made, could not succeed, because it would not long be endured. Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped ; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year.
    Once upon a time the militia was assembled annually for inspection of arms and equipment, and members not properly armed and equipped were fined.

    here is a little more "lite" reading for those interested

    http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm

    http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.txt
    Last edited by F350; January 1st, 2007 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Addendum

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