U of Utah insanity

U of Utah insanity

This is a discussion on U of Utah insanity within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Having got spanked in court, the esteemed administrators are looking for a "compromise", to whit, you can have guns on campus, but just not anywhere ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    U of Utah insanity

    Having got spanked in court, the esteemed administrators are looking for a "compromise", to whit, you can have guns on campus, but just not anywhere you might happen to be:

    http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_003150705.html

    College Leaders Seek Compromise On Gun Ban
    SALT LAKE CITY Utah's public colleges and universities are hoping to reach a compromise with lawmakers that would allow for a partial ban on concealed weapons.

    University of Utah President Michael Young and Senate President John Valentine, R-Orem, have formed a group to consider crafting a bill that could prohibit guns from residence halls, sporting events and other common areas.

    The Utah Supreme Court in September struck down a ban on guns at the school, saying campuses cannot adopt a policy that conflicts with state law, which allows firearms if someone has a permit.

    "Now that the debate on who has control is over, we should have a discussion on if we should create a nuanced policy for universities," Sen. Greg Bell, R-Fruit Heights, said at a meeting Tuesday.

    The University of Utah would like to ban guns in dorms, classrooms, faculty offices, stadiums, arenas and campus hospitals, said Kim Wirthlin, vice president for government relations.

    But some lawmakers aren't certain such a ban would ensure a safe environment.

    "If I send my daughter to the 'U' and you take away her right to defend herself, what guarantee of safety can you give me?" asked Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman, a West Valley City police officer.

    Sen. Mark Madsen, R-Lehi, agreed.

    "If you take away people's right to protect themselves, then you have to assume the liability of protection," he said.

    The university's gun ban dated back to the 1970s, although no violator had ever been expelled.

    Valentine said gun-rights supporters in the Legislature understand the need for some restrictions.

    "Even the Second Amendment advocates are concerned with the issues in dorms and other communal areas, including safe storage of weapons," he said.
    Last edited by srfl; January 7th, 2007 at 12:32 AM. Reason: "P" word.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Time for the state to step it up: Enact, keep on the books or enforce a law in contravention to the ruling, get slapped with $10K/day fine until it's removed; continue, then after 30 days get slapped with $100K/day fine until it's removed; continue, then after 60 days get slapped with $1M/day. Not very likely, I'll grant.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Is this where all the anti gun phobics are coming from, they will try and turn your kids an anti after you give them several K, sounds like a good school to avoid.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    "If I send my daughter to the 'U' and you take away her right to defend herself, what guarantee of safety can you give me?" asked Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman, a West Valley City police officer.

    Sen. Mark Madsen, R-Lehi, agreed.

    "If you take away people's right to protect themselves, then you have to assume the liability of protection," he said.
    Argue that one out. That right there solves it.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    "If I send my daughter to the 'U' and you take away her right to defend herself, what guarantee of safety can you give me?" asked Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman, a West Valley City police officer.

    Sen. Mark Madsen, R-Lehi, agreed.

    "If you take away people's right to protect themselves, then you have to assume the liability of protection," he said.

    I've waited YEARS to read of public officials who have the guts to say things like this publicly to police-types and others who think no one needs guns for personal defense.

    Let 'em have it, guys!! Rock on!!

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I've waited my whole life to hear a public official say these kinds of things. This is the first time I think I have ever heard some type, any type of public official say exactly the right thing.

    Utah is looking like a no too bad place to live. Wonder what the weather is like there....
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    "Nuanced policy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    "Now that the debate on who has control is over, we should have a discussion on if we should create a nuanced policy for universities," Sen. Greg Bell, R-Fruit Heights, said at a meeting Tuesday.

    The University of Utah would like to ban guns in dorms, classrooms, faculty offices, stadiums, arenas and campus hospitals, said Kim Wirthlin, vice president for government relations.
    I've been following this dispute at the U. of Utah for several years in various gun blogs. Now that the Utah Supreme Court has finally put the issue to rest, and told the University that they must follow state law, they come up with a suggested "nuanced policy".

    Their definition of "nuanced policy" is to ban guns in virtually every building on university grounds, but allow you to have guns elsewhere. Perhaps an armed person walking on the sidewalk at the university would be OK, but he'd better not come into a building. What is he supposed to do, hide his gun in the bushes by the front door? Perhaps the university should just create a small area defined by yellow crime scene tape on the corner of the grounds, and allow guns inside the area but nowhere else on campus. Would this satisfy the Supreme Court and let the university have its way?

    The problem here is university administrators who are hired state employees, spending state funds on state property, who still think they can do as they wish and ignore the state legislature, the governor, and the state Supreme Court. Maybe those administrators should be replaced.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    the antis will do ANYTHING, ANYTHING, from intentionally misinterpreting statutes that say "black" as meaning "white", to repeatedly trying to change the law to get their way.

    They can't just DEAL with losing, because they just can't believe the law and the will of the people, are what they are.

    I hate. I just hate it.

    Keep it up, freedom-lovers and crime-haters of Utah. If you succeed in beating back these spurious challenges, it will help other jurisdictions. In many places that allow CCW (including Oklahoma), the statutes specifically forbid CC on college campuses .

    In Oklahoma the way around that is to obtain a letter from the president of the subject college. To my knowledge, no such letter has ever been issued for anyone. Ever.

    If Utah, followed by others, allows CCW on their campuses, with no problems (or with problems that are RESOLVED in favor of the good guys against the bad guys by CCW licensees), that might just change.

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