In the Fight Against Terrorism, Some Rights Must Be Repealed

This is a discussion on In the Fight Against Terrorism, Some Rights Must Be Repealed within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Common people let's hammer this clueless moron. His e mail is at the bottom of the story. http://www.ispu.us/pages/articles/29...eDetailPB.html The idea of public gun ownership simply ...

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Thread: In the Fight Against Terrorism, Some Rights Must Be Repealed

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Angry In the Fight Against Terrorism, Some Rights Must Be Repealed

    Common people let's hammer this clueless moron. His e mail is at the bottom of the story.
    http://www.ispu.us/pages/articles/29...eDetailPB.html
    The idea of public gun ownership simply does not make sense anymore... Today, only a handful of citizens outside of neo-nazi and white supremacist goups view gun ownership as a means of keeping the government in check.
    guess this puts me in that minority that is except the neo-nazi white supremacist part. That and the Bozo can't even use a spell checker.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Wow. What an idiot. Just sent off an email. Did a little diggin - turns out the guy who wrote it isn't even a scholar. He's an attorney from Illinois.... Here's his blogger profile:
    http://www.blogger.com/profile/6336077

    The "Institute" itself doesn't seem that friendly either. One article entitled "America Must Resign itself to Rogue state Nukes" or something like that. I mean ***... Critisizing the Nation-building in a compare contrast with Iraq and Bosnia.... now COME ON!!!! You have to be kidding me!!!! Yugoslavia has been divided for more than 1200 years! Many have tried to calm the area, but its not going to happen in certain sections of the region. Iraq? Has been much more stable for much longer.

    Organizations and lobby groups like this are one of the reasons I never ever want to go back to DC again.
    The Gunsite Blog
    ITFT / Quick Kill Review
    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

  4. #3
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    I get the impression that email to him would be a waste of time.

    We'll see how much of his rights he's willing to give up when "W" is reading his mail without a warrant.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array 4my son's Avatar
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    My reply

    Mr. Afeef.

    I just read your article on repealing the rights of citizens to own firearms in the interest of fighting terrorism. If you would give me a few minutes of your time, please express you opinions on a few points I would like to put before you. First, let me tell you a little about myself, so we each know whom we are talking to. I am a 35 year old white American born and raised in the south. I am a husband and a father and graduated high school with a couple of collage credits under my belt. I am not a neo Nazi, or white supremacist, just an American working hard to provide for my family.



    Now, to the questions I would like to ask you relative to private gun ownership and the right to carry weapons for personal protection. As an attorney, please give me your professional opinion on these two following cases, [Warre vs. District of Columbia] and [ Hertzler vs. City of San Jose], the first case has an interesting quote attached to it from a DC court of appeals" the fundamental principal of American law, is that the government and it's agents are under no general duty to provide services such as police protection to the individual citizen" individual citizen, that means you, and me, and the members of our families, right? The plaintiffs (I believe is the legal term) in that case were living in Washington DC at the time the incident that brought about this case, A NO GUNS ALLOWED (well in the hands of law abiding citizens anyway) part of town. Hertzler, addresses the fact that this applies also to "restraining orders" also.



    You mentioned several tragic shootings in your article, just think if they had happened in, lets say, Israel,(see attachment) civilian volunteers, sometimes grandparents, patrol the schools, and often with gov’t issued firearms, because there, much the same as here, the government, including all branches of law enforcement and the military, simply can not be everywhere, all the time.



    In your writings, please don't stereotype the law abiding gun owners of America; I did not stereotype you as a terrorist muslin whom merely hasn't gotten the call to "activate" yet. If you wish to write about a particular group of people, please give a little professional courtesy as a journalist, and talk to at least a couple of them first, I would be happy to answer questions you may have in relation to the "true" reason a lot of Americans wish to posses firearms.



    Thanks in advance



    Mike ******

    Richmond, VA
    The attachement was the article mentioned on here sometime in the recent past by Ayoob about the Israel's arming their citizens to guard their schools, and how citizens are more likely to stop a terrorist gunman attack, because the police are often not there.

    Who knows if I'll here back from him. We'll see.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    So long as guns remain available to the general public, there will always be the threat of terrorists walking into a crowded restaurant, a busy coffee shop or a packed movie theater and opening fire upon unsuspecting civilians.
    The implication being that BG's actually get their weapons from the corner store, like normal people, and that shutting down such normal avenues would actually put more than a dent in the flow of such illegal arms. Not hardly. Hasn't done so with machine guns, as, in point of fact, it's the BG's that have 'em when even many police departments don't.

    Lackadaisical identity systems and border controls mean that BG's are merely one chunk of meat in the pot of stew anyway, mixing with all the GG's. There's no practical way to separate them all.

    Thus, the only practical option is to catch them at their work. Since the fine police cannot possibly be expected to be there at each and every impending action by BG's, it falls to each person to retain personal responsibility and control over his/her own safety and security.

    Each tool has a purpose, and many tools have no legitimate alternative. A firearm is one of those tools. When being gunned down in a movie house, the only plausible method of stopping said BG is: terminate his crime, right then. And that isn't going to happen by placing a call to 911, or praying to a higher power, or wishing it weren't so. It's going to happen when, and only when, a half dozen folks within spittin' distance are armed and prepared to take him down. And it's exactly that "simple math" that's going to cause the next BG in line to rethink his tactics and surmise that a well-laid mine field is indeed a dangerous place.

    The spittin' of a few wayward politicians and Social Policy Misunderstanding types certainly would provide a good backstop for a few dozen rounds of a BG's 7.62, but that isn't going to help much in that crowded theater. Printed out, that article might provide a good light for my fireplace, though. One thing I can rely on: I'll be armed and as prepared as I'm able.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  7. #6
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    Junaid Afeef: A Lawyer associated with every kind of Muslim legal defense group I managed to google and President of Muslim Bar Association.... do I detect a fifth columnist here?
    Disarm the Infidels and we win?

    The website is registered to one muzammil ahmed and according to Google, he is an Urologist from Michigan.
    Here is the rest (and long) rest of the info regadrding to that site:
    Domain Name: ISPU.US
    Domain ID: D3041057-US
    Sponsoring Registrar: REGISTER.COM
    Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
    Registrant ID: C2345040-NXUS
    Registrant Name: muzammil ahmed
    Registrant Organization: muslim community of western su
    Registrant Address1: 40440 Palmer Rd
    Registrant City: Canton
    Registrant State/Province: MI
    Registrant Postal Code: 48188
    Registrant Country: United States
    Registrant Country Code: US
    Registrant Phone Number: +1.7343541969
    Registrant Facsimile Number: +1.7344949094
    Registrant Email: muzammil@umich.edu
    Registrant Application Purpose: P4
    Registrant Nexus Category: C11
    Administrative Contact ID: C28307385-US
    Administrative Contact Name: muzammil ahmed
    Administrative Contact Organization: Institute for Social Peace and
    Administrative Contact Address1: 47498 Fox Run
    Administrative Contact City: Canton
    Administrative Contact State/Province: MI
    Administrative Contact Postal Code: 48187
    Administrative Contact Country: United States
    Administrative Contact Country Code: US
    Administrative Contact Phone Number: +1.7343541969
    Administrative Contact Facsimile Number: +1.7344949094
    Administrative Contact Email: muzammil@enoor.com
    Billing Contact ID: C1-US
    Billing Contact Name: CcTLD Billing
    Billing Contact Organization: REGISTER.COM
    Billing Contact Address1: 62 Rcom Drive
    Billing Contact City: Yarmouth
    Billing Contact State/Province: NS
    Billing Contact Postal Code: B5A 4B1
    Billing Contact Country: Canada
    Billing Contact Country Code: CA
    Billing Contact Phone Number: +1.9027492792
    Billing Contact Facsimile Number: +1.4137238334
    Billing Contact Email: cctld-billing@register.com
    Technical Contact ID: C16184212-US
    Technical Contact Name: Aijaz Ansari
    Technical Contact Organization: ENoor Creations, Inc.
    Technical Contact Address1: 825 E. Roosevelt Rd. #118
    Technical Contact City: Lombard
    Technical Contact State/Province: IL
    Technical Contact Postal Code: 60148
    Technical Contact Country: United States
    Technical Contact Country Code: US
    Technical Contact Phone Number: +1.8478450235
    Technical Contact Email: aijaz@enoor.com
    Name Server: NS1.FATIHA.COM
    Name Server: NS2.FATIHA.COM
    Created by Registrar: REGISTER.COM
    Last Updated by Registrar: REGISTER.COM
    Domain Registration Date: Sat Nov 02 2330 GMT 2002
    Domain Expiration Date: Thu Nov 01 23:59:59 GMT 2007
    Domain Last Updated Date: Thu Jun 23 23:29:48 GMT 2005
    Last edited by Miggy; January 9th, 2007 at 09:24 AM. Reason: adding Info
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  8. #7
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    My reply:

    Sir:

    I am one of the quiet many that you call "only a handful of citizens outside of neo-nazi and white supremacist goups". We are the people that know about the courts' rulings that the police are not obligated to protect us and have decided that our familes' lives and our own lives are too important to leave to chance. "What chance?", you ask. The chance that we will have the opportunity to call 911 before being disabled. The chance that the police will arrive before the bag guy kills or injures us. You can see where I am going with this.

    The incidents of murder you cited were tragedies. Tragedies that occurred when the police were not present. Tragedies that might have been averted if one or more citizens present had been armed.

    In the same paragraph you put the two phrases "...in 2002 41 percent of American households owned at least one gun..." and "Regrettably, these folks are going to marshal their considerable resources to protect their special interest." I would hardly call 41 percent of the households a "special interest". The reason "they" have "considerable resources" is because "they" constitute such a large percentage of the population.

    "This is a shame. Instead of laying waste to the civil rights and civil liberties that are at the core of free society...the nation ought to focus its attention on the havoc guns cause in society and debate the merits of gun ownership in this era of terrorism." If you would check, you would see that private (or public, as you phrase it) gun ownership is a core of a free society. JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) has an excellent documentary on just this point; "Innocents Betrayed" is very informative. I highly recomment it to you.

    "The idea of terrorist cells operating clandestinely in the United States, quietly amassing handguns and assault rifles, and planning suicide shooting rampages in our malls, is right out of Tom Clancy’s most recent novel../..So long as guns remain available to the general public, there will always be the threat of terrorists walking into a crowded restaurant, a busy coffee shop or a packed movie theater and opening fire upon unsuspecting civilians." In Tom Clancy's novel, the terrorists are smuggled over the Mexican border into this country. You can't make the argument that even if there were zero guns in this country, they would not bring guns with them. The terrorists will always have guns, even if the citizens don't.

    "The Second Amendment is not worth such risks." I believe the Second Amendment is exactly what moderates these risks...people having the ability to defend themselves on the spot.

    I believe the "well-regulated militia" argument has been sufficiently argued in other arenas and this letter is long enough without it. I would be happy to send you links to the arguments if you are interested.

    I don't attempt to take away your right to publish your articles on the internet because some criminal mis-uses your medium to publish child porn. Please don't try to take away my right to defend myself because some criminal mis-uses my medium.

    Sincerely,

    John ...

    copperknight@gmail.com
    It's a little long, but I couldn't help myself.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  9. #8
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    The idea of public gun ownership simply does not make sense anymore...
    Tell that to the BG who is about to rob and shoot you! He will laugh, as he takes aim!

    Some good replies folks - if only they will register and get thru. I fear trying to make sense and logic permeate that thick skull will be a miracle.

    Miggy - wow! Good digging!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Tell him he also needs to give up his freedom of speech and his religious freedom in order to fight terrorism and watch him howl like a banshee, or cry like a baby! This is just another anti-gun whacko dressed up in a modern costume.

    Either that or, as someone else said, he is an islamo-fascist who hopes to disarm the enemy (which would be us law-abiding Americans!). In either case, responding to him is going to be a complete waste of time. This is obviously not the sort of person who is going to be open to rational dialog.

  11. #10
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    Afeef is a scumbag terrorist !!!! I replied to a similar article from him over a year ago and got the typical "Your just rednecks with guns reply" . This guy chooses to be in our country , Yet doesnt like the country he's in . He has the freedom to leave just as any of us do if we do not like it here , Yet he chooses to stay and take away our rights .

    He is somewhat correct , I am a redneck with a gun!!! Not just A gun , And some BIG FUGGIN guns!!!! And i will not hesitate to use against him or any other terrorist attempting to attack our country or commit a treason against the USA or anyone of its citizens !

    Sorry for the rant , But the SCUMBAG boils my redblooded redneck a$$ !!!!!!
    Last edited by speedlinehobbies; January 9th, 2007 at 07:21 PM.
    Anyone make a IWB holster for my AR ??

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    "Your just rednecks with guns reply"
    Hmmm... I think I should send Afeef several pics of the redneck and Klukkers that populate my club. What do you guys think?



    two latinos & a redneck.


    Two rednecks, two cubans and an israeli.


    Cuban too.


    Lady shooter


    Oriental, latinos, white, black...you name it.


    Our picnic match a couple of years back... no white robes here.


    Latino Redneck and a regular one


    Oh yeah... Klukkers allright!


    Proud Cuban Dad.

    Mr. Afeez's problem is that he is the racist pig, not us. He just doesn't know it yet.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array 4my son's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Mr. Afeez's problem is that he is the racist pig, not us. He just doesn't know it yet.
    Spot on Miggy,
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    I fear trying to make sense and logic permeate that thick skull will be a miracle.
    Quote Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
    In either case, responding to him is going to be a complete waste of time. This is obviously not the sort of person who is going to be open to rational dialog.
    I'm sure it was useless, but I can't see myself standing on the side and growling about the situation without having first tried to do something to change it.

    I have no illusions that an email with change his opinion, but anyone who is a decent human being has to harbor some doubts about his position when all the facts point the other way. And if he is not a decent human being, then I have done nothing more than waste part of my morning.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  15. #14
    Member Array DakotaXD's Avatar
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    "Old Marines never die, we just smell like it." USMC 71'-83'


    Stay Safe

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Ride4TheBrand's Avatar
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    Miggy ~ your post speaks volumes. Thanks for posting.
    "We must remember that one man is much
    the same as another, and that he is best
    who is trained in the severest school."
    ~Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War

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