We're being treated like slaves........

This is a discussion on We're being treated like slaves........ within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; From 'Armed America'- Clayton Cramer (I'm going to buy this book) by 1715 blacks (only) were barred from carrying guns: "Maryland echoed Virginia's 1680 law ...

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Thread: We're being treated like slaves........

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    We're being treated like slaves........

    From 'Armed America'- Clayton Cramer (I'm going to buy this book)

    by 1715 blacks (only) were barred from carrying guns:
    "Maryland echoed Virginia's 1680 law with a 1715 statute that ordered,
    'That no Negro or other slave, within this Province, shall be permitted to carry any Gun or other offensive Weapon, from off their Master's Land, without License from their said Master.'
    Doesn't the bold part of the quote above seem familiar?

    He goes further:

    In 1857 we see that guns are very directly tied to citizenship when Maryland resident, Justice Taney wrote the majority opinion in the Dred Scott case in which the Supreme Court decided that blacks were just 2/3 of a person -- because if they were considered full citizens then: "It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognized as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right...to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation...and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak...and to keep and carry arms wherever they went."
    Sounds to me like we are being treated as less than slaves........


    Maryland used to REQUIRE firearm ownership:

    "Maryland's 'Act for Military Discipline' of 1638 required
    'that every house keeper or housekeepers within this Province shall have ready continually upon all occasions within his her or their house for him or themselves and for every person within his her or their house able to bear armes one Serviceable fixed gunne....'"
    Try getting firearms easily in Md now...................much less a concealed carry permit, which I think is a figment of someone's imagination, since I don't know of any.

    I found this at:
    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2007,+12:39+PM
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    I think that comparing the plight of citizens in today's Maryland to that of slaves is going a bit beyond the pale. Especially considering that it's the duly elected officials of that state who have imposed the rules to which you object. You, as a citizen, have the right, via the electoral process, to remove those individuals who pass laws antithetical to your views. You further have the right to seek redress via the courts to get a law overturned. And if neither occurs, then you have the right to vote with your feet, and move to another less-objectionable state.

    Slaves, of course, had none of those rights, since they were considered property, less than human, and certainly not citizens.

    I don't disagree with you that the anti-gun laws in Maryland are objectionable, just that your "treated as less than slaves" comparison is going too far.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

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    Member Array Robin Hood's Avatar
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    So... We are treating ourselves like slaves?
    "Guns aren’t toys! They’re for protecting your family, hunting dangerous or delicious animals and keeping the King of England out of your face!"
    -Crusty the Clown

    Keep your booger hook off the kill switch 'till you bead the boogeyman!

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    I think that comparing the plight of citizens in today's Maryland to that of slaves is going a bit beyond the pale. Especially considering that it's the duly elected officials of that state who have imposed the rules to which you object. You, as a citizen, have the right, via the electoral process, to remove those individuals who pass laws antithetical to your views. You further have the right to seek redress via the courts to get a law overturned. And if neither occurs, then you have the right to vote with your feet, and move to another less-objectionable state.

    Slaves, of course, had none of those rights, since they were considered property, less than human, and certainly not citizens.

    I don't disagree with you that the anti-gun laws in Maryland are objectionable, just that your "treated as less than slaves" comparison is going too far.
    I think you're missing my point & Cramer's as well.............

    "'That no Negro or other slave, within this Province, shall be permitted to carry any Gun or other offensive Weapon, from off their Master's Land, without License from their said Master.'"
    Just change the nouns slightly from 'Negro' or 'slave' to gun owner & change 'Master' to State.......you get:

    That no gun-owner, within this state, shall be permitted to carry any gun or other defensive weapon, from off their land, without LICENSE from their said State.

    Do you see it now? Take color out of this & substitute guns! I'm also not singling Maryland out, there are a lot of restrictions around the country.

    Read it again from that perspective & you will still be offended, BUT NOT AT ME OR CRAMER. You will or should be angered at the government that does this to ANY of it's people.

    We are being treated like slaves or CRIMINALS for wanting the ability to protect ourselves.

    I also, do NOT live in Maryland....see my location on the left.

    Especially considering that it's the duly elected officials of that state who have imposed the rules to which you object.
    It was these same 'duly elected officials' that authorized slavery & Jim Crow laws to begin with. Just because they were duly elected, doesn't mean they're right does it?

    I also vote, but when you are outnumbered by buffoons, what alternative is there?
    Last edited by goawayfarm; February 13th, 2007 at 06:36 PM.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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    Member Array newmexiglock's Avatar
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    "We" are not being treated like slaves or criminals. Rodc13 said it well. "We" are not treating ourselves like slaves. Comparing gun ownership with the plight of an ethnic group who by and large were tortured, mistreated, had their families broken up at the whim of the their "owner", and who-when free- still had their unalienable human rights stomped on is a bit much. If gun owners really had to put up with the civil atrocities that African-Americans have had to endure as a peoples then maybe there is some relevance to this comparison. Gun owners have not had to endure this type of alienation/harassment.

    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    I also vote, but when you are outnumbered by buffoons, what alternative is there?
    Move to Idaho or any other of the more civilized states.
    America should have license to carry "children" laws...

    Mooo

  7. #6
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    There was more to the slave experience than simply not being allowed to own and carry firearms.
    This argument potentially trivializes the history of slavery and lends nothing to validate our cause of responsible gun ownership.

    We are in difficult times, but as has been said already, we have the option to vote our way forward. Something not afforded the slaves, or the Jews in Nazi Germany, or the Cambodians under the Khmer Rouge, or whatever other sensational comparison is next used.

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    I'm not trying to trivialize slavery.

    I just fear our rights are being eroded & if it continues we will be disarmed of ANY means of self defense. This kind of regulation of self defense is as abominable as slavery.

    Self defense is basic to survival. Look at the UK, first they banned guns, now they are banning knives. They have also prosecuted people for defending their property & lives. Anybody remember a farmer named Martin? I also have a bunch of other examples, if anyone is interested.........Many here in this country want to follow their lead.

    When the ability to defend our very lives is threatened........what is worse than that.......it ultimately leads to death, maybe not today, but that's where it leads. How many innocents are preyed upon every day?

    Nothing is more precious than life................& it should be allowable to defend it, irregardless of what a politician says.

    We have allowed jurisdictions to infringe on this right & it is now giving rise to 'second class' citizens. For example, a LEO in Chicago impersonated a pizza deliveryman. He gets robbed by a BG, whom he then shoots & kills. The LEO is now a 'hero'. If you or I had been a REAL pizza dude & been in the same situation........WE WOULD BE IN JAIL, since it's illegal to carry a concealed weapon in Chicago. So the people who are at risk (the second class citizens), aren't allowed to defend themselves.

    So whether you call us 'second class' or slaves, many are without basics rights.

    "Slavery is a social-economic system under which certain persons — known as slaves — are deprived of their personal freedom"

    "Slave-
    1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
    2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence"
    Last edited by goawayfarm; February 13th, 2007 at 09:27 PM.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  9. #8
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    I agree with you that we need to fight to retain our rights.
    I don't think the slave analogy is at all appropriate, especially on a public forum. Antis will see that and misquote us at will.

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    I "get" the attempted comparison but, it's really not an appropriate one.

    The last time I checked no American individual was forced & chained to reside in a particular state.
    We can vote and we can freely move.

    Though I do believe that law abiding gun owners are treated somewhat as second class citizens in some areas of the U.S. ~ I'm not too keen on the Negro/Slavery comparison.
    It's quite shallow, modestly wacky and a real reality stretch.
    Just my personal opinion on that.

  11. #10
    Member Array buzzg's Avatar
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    There really are no comparisons. We (the U.S.) are the only system of governance by the people in existence that has survived for more than 200 years. We now find ourselves attacked from without as well as from within. The Roman Empire, which was in form similar to ours, didn't last much longer. What brought them down were the same threats that we face today. The primary threat we face as American citizens is disarmament, and being overrun by illegal immigrants some of whom are determined to eradicate us. Once we have no weapons we will then be slaves. That hasn't happened yet. So, we are not yet slaves. Our 'representatives' refuse to address the illegal immigration problem for fear of losing votes. They are afraid to stomp the crap out of the enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan for fear of being 'warlike'. Or some such drivel. I'm a believer in Teddy Roosevelt's approach. ( This goes for gun owners too.) 'Speak softly and carry a big stick.'
    This philosophy applies well to both problems. Our stick is the VOTE. Select candidates only on the issues surrounding the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments, a strong stand on controlling our borders and deporting illegals, and you can't go too far wrong. The real problem is; Where the hell is there a candidate that meets those criteria?
    Well, I've dumped my 3-4 cents worth. Carry on. Buy ammo. Pray. Speak out. We've all depended too long on preaching to the choir and sending money to NRA, GOA, etc. It's time to hit the pavement.

    Buzz Gunning
    NRA Endowment Member

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    Ex Member Array one eyed fatman's Avatar
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    The last time I checked no American individual was forced & chained to reside in a particular state.
    We can vote and we can freely move.
    I'm sure our present form of government will be changing that as soon as some corporation pays them to.

  13. #12
    Member Array Robin Hood's Avatar
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    Goawayfarm,

    I get it and I agree.

    The bigger question is why are people deprived of the ability to bear arms? Slave or citizen.

    We live in a great country, but don't let that cloud vision or make you ignorant of history.

    Condition white goes for politics too.
    Last edited by QKShooter; February 13th, 2007 at 11:25 PM.
    "Guns aren’t toys! They’re for protecting your family, hunting dangerous or delicious animals and keeping the King of England out of your face!"
    -Crusty the Clown

    Keep your booger hook off the kill switch 'till you bead the boogeyman!

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    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    I get the comparison that is being made. Had the original poster made the same reference, substituting one word for another, and not supplying the original text, not many here would have made the connection, myself included. Am I trivializing a dark period in this country's history? Not at all.

    In the cyberworld, it is easy to tell people to move to another state, but in the real world it isn't always that easy. It is much easier to not spend money where we can't carry than it is to move to another state, so that argument is moot.

    To say that electing the right people to office is the way to go is closer to the right direction. What is needed is politicians with the stones to step up and openly advocate 2A rights and push for them.

    Until then, those in the states that oppose a free people must deal with what they have, and join a grassroots organization that fights for gunrights.

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    It's important not to confuse difficult or inconvenient with not possible.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
    There really are no comparisons. We (the U.S.) are the only system of governance by the people in existence that has survived for more than 200 years. We now find ourselves attacked from without as well as from within. The Roman Empire, which was in form similar to ours, didn't last much longer. What brought them down were the same threats that we face today. The primary threat we face as American citizens is disarmament, and being overrun by illegal immigrants some of whom are determined to eradicate us. Once we have no weapons we will then be slaves. That hasn't happened yet. So, we are not yet slaves. Our 'representatives' refuse to address the illegal immigration problem for fear of losing votes. They are afraid to stomp the crap out of the enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan for fear of being 'warlike'. Or some such drivel. I'm a believer in Teddy Roosevelt's approach. ( This goes for gun owners too.) 'Speak softly and carry a big stick.'
    This philosophy applies well to both problems. Our stick is the VOTE. Select candidates only on the issues surrounding the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments, a strong stand on controlling our borders and deporting illegals, and you can't go too far wrong. The real problem is; Where the hell is there a candidate that meets those criteria?
    Well, I've dumped my 3-4 cents worth. Carry on. Buy ammo. Pray. Speak out. We've all depended too long on preaching to the choir and sending money to NRA, GOA, etc. It's time to hit the pavement.

    Buzz Gunning
    NRA Endowment Member
    Bravo

    And I second your question, where are those candidates that we are lloking for. Hillary, Obama, Julianni, McCain??? I think not.

    So, when we have no decent person to vote for, then what??? Perhaps the vote becomes somewhat meaningless (the stick is no longer a deterant) if it can't be put to any good use. Just my $.02
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

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