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Have We Gained More Gun Rights in the Last (2) Years or Lost More?

  • Gained

    Votes: 65 68.4%
  • Lost

    Votes: 30 31.6%

Gained more or lost more?

3K views 55 replies 43 participants last post by  357MagMan 
#1 ·
Simple pole.

Have we gun owners gained more rights or lost more in the past 2 years?
The pole is not limited to state or federal, though the states seem to be writing most gun related laws at the moment.
CC, OC, ownership, ammo...the whole ball of wax should be considered.

Personally, I'm seeing one step forward and two steps back overall.
 
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#3 ·
In the past 2yrs, even 8yrs ... overall I think there have been more gains than losses. Clearly so, IMO.


Of course, the whole mommy-may-I schemes in "anti" states still exist (CA counties with anti sheriffs; NJ, NYC, DC, etc). Folks have to go begging for governmental permission to exercise their constitutionally-protected rights. Folks have to concoct some monstrous web of claims, if mere defense of innocent life isn't deemed a valid reason for seeking to be armed. Folks have to pay through the nose in time and treasure to prove themselves worthy (with training, applications, ID's, proofs, supporting references and everything else) of being allowed to exercise their rights. And the feds still get cover from SCOTUS on their hyper-invasiveness throughout the field of arms, where the citizens who've hired them are concerned. Lots to be done, still, despite the overall gains.
 
#7 ·
Agreed.

The pole is difficult to quantify; I know that.

One would have to look at each state, one by one and compare now vs 2 yrs ago.
Some states may have changed little, some quite a bit.
Then we would have to (weight) each measure if it was restrictive or expanded gun rights.

I don't have the statistical math skills to assign weight to gun rights measures, and even then, the weights may differ from person to person.

The pole is just a snapshot; hardly scientific.

If nothing else, perhaps it will spur some thought; where were we; where are we, where are we heading?
 
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#12 ·
It seems that a lot of states have gained with right to carry, etc. The authoritarians in DC aren't very happy about that. I expect lots of new attempts to deny our 2nd Amendment rights in the next 2 years.
 
#14 ·
I voted "gained", but that is not really the right word. Recovered or reclaimed would be more fitting.
 
#24 ·
I hear ya.

This is the difficult aspect of quantifying such a snapshot pole.

If WA goes down into the NJ, Conn, MD way, I wonder how to weight such a loss in the overall grand scheme?

Many people say "I won't live in such a state"
To me such a position seems risky to simply (write off) a state as "lost."

Before we know it, the states that are currently 2A friendly will be islands, surrounded by tyrants.
 
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#16 ·
I live in Colorado.

Mine is a SOLID LOST.

And the way I feel about it would get me infraction points. I am leaving this thread and never coming back. sorry.
 
#17 ·
The first step toward losing completely was taken when people accepted the concept of government infringement of a right guaranteed in our Constitution, which is the foundation of all law. At that point the right to keep and bear arms became a privilege to be granted or withheld by legislative or bureaucratic fiat. Everything that has happened since has been no more than compromise, with the middle ground becoming an ever-shrinking place. Any perceived gains in individual liberties have resulted from reactions to strong resistance, and are viewed by the anti-gun crowd as temporary accommodations made in order to keep moving toward the end-game of complete bans.

Two steps forward, one step back. Two steps forward, one step back. When we start celebrating the one step back we lose sight of all the ground already lost.

I have followed this issue closely since the early 1960's, a time of much turmoil, political assassinations, unrest and riots in the cities. The anti-gun movement has always demanded more than they ever believed they could get, then settled for compromise at some perceived middle ground, then started up again demanding further compromise. Every time we have allowed compromise we have lost a significant portion of our liberties, with every compromise bringing the end game closer and closer. Meanwhile, we have allowed a couple of new generations to be brainwashed, either denouncing such liberties entirely or becoming so doubtful that little will remains for resistance.

When I was in 7th and 8th grades I frequently carried a shotgun or .22 rifle with me to school so I could go hunting after classes. All that was asked was that I leave it in a locked closet in the office. While in high school I drove a car which usually had my guns locked in the trunk, as did many others during hunting seasons. No one though anything about it.

Now children are expelled from school for chewing a pastry into the shape of a pistol and showing it to others, anything that even portrays a firearm or ammunition will result in suspension or expulsion, with "zero tolerance" policies effectively replacing anything resembling due process.

People at nice trap and skeet ranges smugly assume that "gun control" means only those evil semi-autos and ugly pistols, not their high dollar toys. Hunters using bolt action rifles with telescopic scopes think nothing about debates about banning "sniper rifles". And a 70-odd year old retired teacher in New Jersey is facing a felony conviction and years of mandatory imprisonment for possession of a pre-Revolutionary War flintlock pistol.

No, we are not gaining anything. We are only succumbing to the temptation to believe that every minor movement of the pendulum in our direction indicates that all is well.
 
#18 ·
"Poll," not "pole." The gains far outweigh the losses overall. All gains here in FL. Heck, we can even fire warning shots--legally. But it's a ongoing effort to loosen/remove gun laws.
 
#20 ·
We will be fighting an ongoing battle with this incumbent President who feel we are just too dumb to own black rifles.Now he can win in the area of majority rules he's resorted to Executive orders which will be overturned in the courts.This is all in
the scheme of things to make our sport so expensive the average Joe won't be able to afford gun ownership.It's probably going to cost a lot of coin to legal beagles to overturn our dictator actions.It's already starting with immigration.He lost in the courts now this leader threatening to withhold funding.I can't wait until this guy gone it's been a long six plus years!@
 
#22 ·
One year ago tomorrow the ISP put out a press release stating that the first 5000 CCW permits had been approved and they would begin mailing them out. One week later I had mine. So YES. (In fact, it's actually a regaining of a right that was taken away.)
 
#23 ·
I cannot answer the poll question because we have one right to keep and bear Arms and at no time in the last 2 years has this right ever been completely "lost" and at no time in the last 2 years has there ever been a "gain" of an additional right added.

The inherent right we have, has been infringed and continues to be infringed upon in new ways and any infringement is a step or rather a giant leap in the wrong direction. The lifting/removal of a portion of an infringement is progress in the right direction and is a restoration of that portion of our freedoms and liberties which had previously been stripped from us. An infringement is, by it's very nature, an act of treason against our founding documents and freedom itself and should be judged on its own merits and not coupled with the positive achievements in an effort to make those infringements on our rights seem less evil than they actually are.
 
#25 ·
We been losing since 1934 ...

If we narrow it down to the last two years :

Wins
1. More CCW being allowed or at least Gun owning .. IL /CA/ Wa .. But that is still being fought over and not a true win yet


Loses
1. MANY Bans
a. 7N6
b. Russian gun ban
c. Maybe M855
D. maybe gun trust

We have seen many loses on a state level too .. mag bans / gun taking laws and more


At most this is a wash out at most
 
#26 ·
It is REALLY sad to see so many believe that a new law that gives back a tiny bit of a lost freedom is a gain.
It is no wonder that our "Masters" in governmental leadership positions have so much power, we willingly let them take and take and take, then throw us a bone once in a while to keep everyone "happy".

When will we learn that "WE" are the government and our elected officials must be doing our bidding or they need to be replaced. If us good citizens don't take this back soon it will be lost for good and future generations will be nothing more than slaves to "Incumbents".

Sad, SAD, SAD!
 
#27 ·
Google 'concealed carry map over time', and see the proliferation of "shall issue" States since 1986.

Look at the latest Pew poll which shows the highest percentage of pro-gun sentiment since the poll was started.

Look at a poll that PBS (NOT a Conservative bastion) ran, where 96% or so of respondents FAVORED gun rights. (PBS seems to have buried the poll results - don't know if they're still available).

If you look short-term, we have still won more than we've lost, IMO, but if you look at long-term trends, we're winning where it counts most - in the opinions of ordinary people (not gun folks) who see the benefits of gun ownership. The mass media and the education system, from kindergarten through college, remains anti-gun, but Lincoln's adage about fooling people is apropos here. That's why the antis are so vocal and shrill in their rants and raves - they're losing, they know it, and they can't figure any way to reverse the tide which is running so strongly against them.

My main concern remains SCOTUS. With the Presidency likely to remain in Democratic hands for the near future, I cringe at the thought of Hillery or Joe, or whomever, appointing the next group of SCOTUS Justices.

And look at the HARDWARE: as an old fart now 70 years old, when I came of age and started looking at handguns, the only out-of-the-box reliable guns were DA revolvers from Colt and S&W. The selection of SD ammunition was tiny. CC holsters? Not much. Concealed carry by non-LEO's virtually unheard of. Compared to then, we now live in a Golden Age for concealed carry. Almost endless choices of guns, holsters, ammo, and accessories. Count your blessings!
 
#29 ·
Google 'concealed carry map over time', and see the proliferation of "shall issue" States since 1986.

Look at the latest Pew poll which shows the highest percentage of pro-gun sentiment since the poll was started.

Look at a poll that PBS (NOT a Conservative bastion) ran, where 96% or so of respondents FAVORED gun rights. (PBS seems to have buried the poll results - don't know if they're still available).

If you look short-term, we have still won more than we've lost, IMO, but if you look at long-term trends, we're winning where it counts most - in the opinions of ordinary people (not gun folks) who see the benefits of gun ownership. The mass media and the education system, from kindergarten through college, remains anti-gun, but Lincoln's adage about fooling people is apropos here. That's why the antis are so vocal and shrill in their rants and raves - they're losing, they know it, and they can't figure any way to reverse the tide which is running so strongly against them.

My main concern remains SCOTUS. With the Presidency likely to remain in Democratic hands for the near future, I cringe at the thought of Hillery or Joe, or whomever, appointing the next group of SCOTUS Justices.

And look at the HARDWARE: as an old fart now 70 years old, when I came of age and started looking at handguns, the only out-of-the-box reliable guns were DA revolvers from Colt and S&W. The selection of SD ammunition was tiny. CC holsters? Not much. Concealed carry by non-LEO's virtually unheard of. Compared to then, we now live in a Golden Age for concealed carry. Almost endless choices of guns, holsters, ammo, and accessories. Count your blessings!
Read the Second Amendment and tell me why any sane individual needs "permission" to arm themselves?
How about Counting your lost rights!
 
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