"Gun Crime a Growing Concern in GB"

"Gun Crime a Growing Concern in GB"

This is a discussion on "Gun Crime a Growing Concern in GB" within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Thoughts? Insight? I feel awful for those kids. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070215/...n_gun_violence -------------------------- LONDON - Police stepped up armed patrols in south London Thursday after the month's third ...

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Thread: "Gun Crime a Growing Concern in GB"

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    "Gun Crime a Growing Concern in GB"

    Thoughts? Insight? I feel awful for those kids.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070215/...n_gun_violence


    --------------------------
    LONDON - Police stepped up armed patrols in south London Thursday after the month's third fatal shooting of a neighborhood teenager gave rise to mounting concern about gun crime, despite statistics that showed many such crimes dropping.

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    Billy Cox, 15, was shot dead in a public housing complex on Wednesday. On Feb. 6, 15-year-old Michael Dosunmu was gunned down in his bedroom, three days after James Andre Smartt-Ford, 16, was killed by a gunman at an ice rink in the city.

    The killings stirred public attention in part because the victims had not been reported to have done anything to provoke their attackers. Dosunmu was described as a churchgoing, family-oriented teenager, while neighbors said Cox had no ties to local gangs.

    A man has been charged in Dosunmu's death but there were no charges in the other two killings.

    Possession of handguns was largely outlawed in 1998, in reaction to the massacre two years earlier of 16 kindergarten pupils and their teacher in Dunblane, Scotland, by a man armed with four legally owned handguns.

    In England and Wales, the total of 46 homicides involving firearms in 2005-2006 was the lowest since the late 1980s.

    Gun crime in London fell 14 percent last year, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair told reporters after an emergency meeting with commanders Thursday, but added that he was worried by an emerging trend which has seen boys with guns involved in killings and other serious violent crime.

    Blair promised to step up high-visibility patrols in the area. He also asked Britain's Home Secretary Thursday to support lowering the minimum age for the mandatory five-year sentence for illegal gun possession from 21 to 17.

    Few details have been made available about the recent fatal shootings, but some south London residents blamed the rise of a street culture that glorified gun possession and membership in criminal gangs.

    "Guns have gone from the domain of the crack-cocaine dealers to now being an everyday accessory, a fashionable accessory, that young people want to be seen with, unfortunately," said Claudia Webbe, vice chair of an independent panel which advises Operation Trident, which London police set up in 1998 to combat gun crime, much of it involving drug dealers.

    "I think that's what's motivating young people, where a gun has become almost a status symbol, demanding respect and power," Webbe said in an interview with British Broadcasting Corp. radio.

    Joanna Harrison, 37, said her daughter knew victim Billy Cox, who had been a target for abuse because he wasn't part of a gang

    "He got beat up for no reason. People went and bottled him and his mother in his own home. He got hammered. He looked like the Elephant Man," Harrison said.

    More than 300 police officers and 70 support staff are assigned to Operation Trident, which has claimed many successes. In 2005-2006, officers arrested and charged a suspect in every murder case investigated, won life sentences in 12 cases of gun crime, seized 117 firearms and $700,000 in cash.

    A Home Office report last year found that a handgun which has already been used in a crime could be bought for $300-$400, while a "clean" 9mm gun would fetch $2,000 or more.
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    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Gun crime a growing concern.
    In England and Wales, the total of 46 homicides involving firearms in 2005-2006 was the lowest since the late 1980s.
    So which one is it? Yet again the rush for sensationalism by the media is at the expense of logic.


  3. #3
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    Possession of handguns was largely outlawed in 1998
    Correction - Sept 1997!!!!

    Well - the 'gangstas' will, same as anywhere, be finding guns regardless of any laws - and all the while the honest 'subject' has no legitimate means of self defense.

    As ever - blame guns as entities and not the perpetrators using them ...... altho here the two go together. No amount of 'control' will stop it either because as mentioned, in the gang communities guns are status symbols and always will be.

    I continue to heave big sighs for the way the whole UK has gone - and is still going. More laws - and ever more laws ....... fat lot of good they do against the law-breakers.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Senior Member Array mech1369dlw's Avatar
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    In my opinion, which is mine and not yours, I understand that you are never going to get rid of all of trash. However, IMHO, if the penalty was to be so large, say life without parole, or death, for crimes like rape, murder, robbery, etc, that after they made an example out of the first dozen or so, the rest of the garbage, most of them anyway, would think about a new life style. I understand that there is always a few hammerheads out there that just don't care. There will always be some.

    I know that this is just a dream I have because of all of the political correctness, and bleeding heart liberals and such, but I think it would work if the politicians AND the people would say just what Popeye says, "Enough is enough, and enough is too much"! There has to be an end to all this madness or my grandtwins are really gonna be screwed when they grow up. I'm sure there are tons of people who feel the same, but until we can get the right people into the right places, doing the right things, guess we just have to put up with it. About all I can do is keep up my training and protect what I can.
    A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    This is a good one. No guns to protect your self and the cops are patroling unarmed to capture Armed BG. This is a joke. Sure looks like the cops have things under control. I sure wouldn't want to live in London.

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    If I remember reading correctly. A couple years ago they revamped their crime reporting system so that it would look a lot lower than it was. Basically to try and justify the firearm's ban. Last year their violent crimes passed ours though (per capita). I figure it's a matter of time before that country goes nuts. Less freedom there every single day.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    This is a good one. No guns to protect your self and the cops are patroling unarmed to capture Armed BG. This is a joke. Sure looks like the cops have things under control. I sure wouldn't want to live in London.
    LEOs in Britain are not all unarmed. I know a few who carry.








  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Those all look like specailizd security details, not average everyday police. ^^

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Agreed although they do represent a growing trend for armed patrol (picture 1), but my point was that not all LEOs in GB are unarmed.
    They are becoming far more common than people here believe, go to London and you'll be surpised.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    $20 says they will ban thinking about guns next.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    So which one is it? Yet again the rush for sensationalism by the media is at the expense of logic.


    two-cents, your graph demonstrates that England has FAR more homicides of the non-gun variety than of the gun-related ones. I wonder why they are not screaming about how many people are being killed in all the other ways.

    All this concern for a line on a graph that is almost level, and way down at the bottom. What about that red line up near the 800 mark?!

  12. #12
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Well, the non-gun homicides were all committed by people hitting each other with teapots and teacups, and the tea lobby in the UK is not going to allow any restrictions on teapots or teacups.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    LEOs in Britain are not all unarmed. I know a few who carry.



    I think it's true that only limited details carry guns.

    But the fact that they HAVE TO in order to be effective should have eliminated the stupid 'pride' that Britons have in their police being unarmed.

    They have to admit that in the current state of things, it's folly to believe that unarmed cops are an effective policing force. When they need something done for real, their cops are ARMED.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    The police in pic 1 look to be specialized as well and themselves working in a group toward a specialized assignment.
    Why would average everyday street cops be working in a pack of five and all carrying SMGs...to ostensibly handout parking, speeding, and jaywalking tickets?

    Below is some interesting reading on the subject...

    Guns And Bobbies
    Sunday, Jan. 19, 2003 By J.F.O. MCALLISTER/LONDON
    "Why don't British police routinely carry guns?...opponents are convinced that more extensive arming of police won't help...avoiding an arms race with criminals (virtually all guns are illegal) has helped keep Britain's firearm-murder rate to less than one-thirtieth the U.S. level. British practice relies mainly on gunless police, backed up when needed by units intensively trained not only in marksmanship but in how to discriminate among dangerous criminals, deranged people and lads larking with an air pistol. Scotland Yard now has some 1,750 officers authorized to use firearms out of a total of about 26,000, less than half of those authorized 20 years ago. The shrinkage is due to a policy of investing more training in officers allowed to pull the trigger, after a spate of incidents in which cops shot innocent people.
    Police themselves aren't eager to obtain guns. The Police Federation polled its members in 1995; 79% opposed being routinely armed. Michael Yardley, an expert on armed policing, says "Many police officers will refuse to be armed, either because they are committed to generally unarmed policing, or because they might feel they are not well suited to it."
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...409517,00.html

    British Police Get Right to Carry Stun Guns
    Weekend Edition Saturday, October 9, 2004 · The British government has authorized police in the United Kingdom to carry stun guns. Also known by their brand name "Taser," the weapons incapacitate people with an electrical charge. Human rights groups had initially expressed doubts about the weapons' safety. NPR's Anthony Kuhn reports.
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4078395

    Should all police officers carry guns?
    Saturday, May 13, 2006
    <Take note of the citize responses to the article including those from UK police themselves>
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ublview13.xml

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    The Police in picture 1 were the response to the London bombings according to the text accompanying the photo, more of a patrol than a security detail.
    I agree that armed Police isn't the norm there, but it isn't nonexistent as was said earlier.

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