msnbc almost gets it right

This is a discussion on msnbc almost gets it right within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18174900/ . No mention of arming the students and teachers though. Cowering under a desk and waiting for help to come is no longer ...

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Thread: msnbc almost gets it right

  1. #1
    Member Array azagthoth's Avatar
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    msnbc almost gets it right

    From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18174900/. No mention of arming the students and teachers though.

    Cowering under a desk and waiting for help to come is no longer an option. American schools must teach their students to respond aggressively to attacks by people bent on mayhem.

    "I would hope that the administrators and folks that are making the decisions would understand that itís difficult to negotiate with a bullet," security consultant Allen Hill told TODAY. "A person that comes into your facility with a gun intends to kill and do you harm."

    The founder of Response Options, a Texas-based security company, said, "Get past this paralysis of fear over liability issues. Our country is so litigious and concerned about doing the wrong thing and about doing the politically correct thing that we donít do anything."
    That only helps people like Cho Seung Hui. "The bad guys are counting on Americans to sit still and do nothing," Hill said.

    Students and others need to realize that they do have options, Hill said.

    The "bad guys" plan their attacks. Schools need to plan and rehearse their defenses and responses just as aggressively.

    "The training should be just as intense and be taken just as seriously as the bad guy takes their mission to kill," he said.

    At Virginia Tech, Cho Seung Hui walked into classrooms and simply shot people. There are reports that he even lined up victims to shoot them one by one. But in one Norris Hall classroom, student Zach Petkewicz led his classmates in barricading the door, saving all inside.

    Petkewiczí response was instinctive, prompted by "adrenaline and fear."

    Hillís company teaches acting from knowledge and a well-rehearsed plan.

    "Once the bad guyís inside, how hard is it to hit a non-moving target?" Hill observed
    "Get up and move," he advised. "Do whatever it takes to create chaos and mayhem. Disrupt them. Make them go into a protective mode themselves. We feel that we can become actively aggressive for our own benefit, whether thatís actively running out of the classroom, having to face the gunman and take him down, breaking out windows and escaping that way."

    You canít wait for something to happen and then try to form a response, he said. Itís got to be done in advance.

    Security systems are passive, he said. But those under attack can be active.

    Said Hill: "There are things that you can do to take the initiative away from the bad guy, to disrupt their plan and to create a situation thatís winnable for you."

    --
    Rob

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    Senior Member Array Mtbiker's Avatar
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    Good point. It seems as though that everyone is so afraid to offend anyone (including the bad guys), that we have lost the instinct to preserve our own lives. "If you comply and give them what they want, you won't be harmed." Well this guy "wanted" to kill them. I would rather be shot running towards him (or away from him) than standing still or lying down.
    -Biker

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    Member Array vernonator's Avatar
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    This event, sad as it is, may serve some good. It points out how we have turned our citizens into passive sheep. Everyone is afraid to act because it may offend/hurt/inconvenience someone. As the guest said - GET OF THE X and disrupt the BG's plan.

    We need to stop teaching our children to be victims and teach them to be responsible for themselves. That "victimhood" is THE curse of our continuing spiral towards a liberal/socialist country.....

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    Member Array Kompact9's Avatar
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    "We need to stop teaching our children to be victims and teach them to be responsible for themselves. That "victimhood" is THE curse of our continuing spiral towards a liberal/socialist country..."

    If you don't think this is the truth, next time your child, your acquaintance, your boss, etc. does something that's considered wrong, confront them with it and listen closely to the answer. Quite often the response will be that it's someone else's fault or some happenstance caused it, and the list goes on. Personal responsibility has about gone the way of good manners in quite a lot of our society...
    noli nothis permittere te terere...

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    Senior Member Array Steve48's Avatar
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    School's need to teach kids not to be victims. Steve48

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    Quote Originally Posted by azagthoth View Post
    "...that itís difficult to negotiate with a bullet," security consultant Allen Hill told TODAY.
    Perhaps the most effective way is with a well-aimed, properly-placed counter?

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    Member Array longtrain58's Avatar
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    Burleson ISD in Texas has hired Allen Hill's company to train entering high school freshmen how to protect themselves by throwing books, running instead of cowering, breaking out windows to escape, etc. In other words he is training them how to create mayhem for the BG. I thought it was interesting for the school district to take that course of action. Of course the local police chief didn't think the training was such a great idea. I don't understand that attitude. Anyway, I'm happy to see a school district taking affirmative action.

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    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longtrain58 View Post
    Burleson ISD in Texas has hired Allen Hill's company to train entering high school freshmen how to protect themselves by throwing books, running instead of cowering, breaking out windows to escape, etc. In other words he is training them how to create mayhem for the BG. I thought it was interesting for the school district to take that course of action. Of course the local police chief didn't think the training was such a great idea. I don't understand that attitude. Anyway, I'm happy to see a school district taking affirmative action.
    How do you know about this, I did a search but could not find any info?
    Timmy Jimmy

    If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.

    "Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."

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    Member Array Sam Douthit's Avatar
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    In the college orientation the students should be encouraged to throw books, papers, desks, charge and take down the shooter, yell scream and genrally cause chaos when confronted with an armed mass murderer. It will cause a serious limit to the number of dead. The 21 foot rule applies. Someone in good shape can cover 21 feet in a time less than 1.5 seconds. It takes longer than that for a trained officer to draw and shoot a handgun. A moving target is hard to hit with a handgun. A still target is hard to hit when pushed for time unless you are one of these people like me who shoot regularly in timed drills. A lot depends on the attitude of the people. They must be taught survival skillsl
    Sambo74
    SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I'd tell them to rush the BG en masse. Of course that would require considerable trust that your classmates have the presence of mind and the cojones to actually do so when it's crunch time.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    In my opinion MSNBC is as anti gun as you can get. Any story they run in favor is just to satisfy the pro gun people that watch MSNBC.

    I have been watching them the last few days and they are 100% gun control.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve48 View Post
    School's need to teach kids not to be victims. Steve48
    Parents need to teach kids not to be victims.

    Schools need to teach children to read and write.
    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair

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    Member Array Obiwan's Avatar
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    I was taught at Parris Island that the proper response to an attack is a MASSIVE, EXTREMELY VIOLENT counterattack to be stopped only when the problem is completely eliminated. That's 200+ years of knowledge well packaged!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obiwan View Post
    I was taught at Parris Island that the proper response to an attack is a MASSIVE, EXTREMELY VIOLENT counterattack to be stopped only when the problem is completely eliminated. That's 200+ years of knowledge well packaged!

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