Dingell, NRA Working on a Bill to...

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Thread: Dingell, NRA Working on a Bill to...

  1. #46
    Member Array lostone1413's Avatar
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    I don't trust a Government that allowed what went on in New Orleans to happen. I won't trust a Government that gave us Ruby Ridge. I sure won't trust leaders that burned alive over 100 men woman and children at Waco. Maybe I missed it but who went to jail over any of the above? Anyone even lose a job?? Maybe we should go back even farther lets see how about Hay Market Square? Maybe the Ludlow Massacre. That don't work what about the WW1 Vets camped in DC.

    You really believe this is the Republic the founding fathers setup??????
    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.
    — John F. Kennedy

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    Do you trust the government to maintain a police force and justice system, and to incarcerate people convicted of crimes? It sounds to me like you're advocating all-out anarchy, doing away with laws, police, and prisons altogether, and just having everyone fend for themselves.
    Obviously most of us do not as we carry firearms for our personal protection.

    Saying that we should not allow the government to mess with the 2nd amendment isn't advocating removal of the justice system at all. That doesn't correlate in the slightest. Is it really so hard to ask for real and unconditional freedom? To actually force the government to abide by the Bill of Rights?

    I guess that probably makes me sound like some kind of extremist, but if that's the case, then I welcome it.
    Last edited by SammyIamToday; April 26th, 2007 at 10:52 PM.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  4. #48
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    Obviously most of us do not as we carry firearms for our personal protection.
    So you don't think we should have police at all? Nice. Way to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Saying that we should not allow the government to mess with the 2nd amendment isn't advocating removal of the justice system at all. That doesn't correlate in the slightest. Is it really so hard to ask for real and unconditional freedom? To actually force the government to abide by the Bill of Rights?
    I don't see where in the BoR it says that inmates are allowed to keep and bear arms. Of course it doesn't say they can't either. So are you advocating allowing prisoners to carry firearms in prison?

    I guess that probably makes me sound like some kind of extremist, but if that's the case, then I welcome it.
    Yes, since you believe we should abolish the police and/or allow prisoners to carry weapons, you definitely are an extremist.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Yes give all the death row inmates pistols, with one round and keep them in isolation for months on end...think of the savings...
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    So you don't think we should have police at all? Nice. Way to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    Man, continue to put words in my mouth please. I never said we don't need a justice system. I said that I can't count on them to protect me. Obviously you cannot either as you carry a gun for protection. Let's call a spade a spade here. Most police officers are good people that perform a good community service. That doesn't make them my protector or anyone elses. That's an impossible role to fill.

    I don't see where in the BoR it says that inmates are allowed to keep and bear arms. Of course it doesn't say they can't either. So are you advocating allowing prisoners to carry firearms in prison?


    Yes, since you believe we should abolish the police and/or allow prisoners to carry weapons, you definitely are an extremist.
    Here's an idea. In the future read what someone posts instead of making up their argument for them.

    The BoR is a list of things that you have a right to as a human being. Often called inalienable rights. The government is not allowed to infringe upon those rights. They do obviously, but they aren't supposed to. And no, not just the 2nd Amendment. The FCC infringes upon the First all the time. There are many examples of infringements that shouldn't happen. Probably the nature of the beast, but that doesn't make it right or acceptable.

    I don't have a problem with any individual carrying a weapon to defend theirself. I do have a problem with someone murdering someone as they are violating their victim's individual rights by doing so. It's a pretty simple concept that has absolutely nothing to do with disbanding the justice system.

    As far as violent criminals carrying weapons, I don't think we should allow violent criminals to ever return to society, so that's a non-issue. Interestingly enough though, in the 1950's and prior when felons and anyone could purchase firearms we didn't have all of these problems. So, it's a pretty weak argument to say that we need some gun control to keep guns out of the hands of people that don't need them. No law passed in the history of mankind is ever going to keep weapons away from someone that wants them. Wasting time and resources trying to do so is asinine.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  7. #51
    Member Array ShowMeState1977's Avatar
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    Here's the NRA's response to the original article.

    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=2921

    NRA Statement On Legislative Efforts On Capitol Hill

    Friday, April 27, 2007

    Recent reports in the Washington Post, Newsweek and other media outlets are fanning Internet rumors regarding the NRA’s position concerning legislation currently being discussed in Congress in the aftermath of the horrific crimes that occurred at Virginia Tech.

    The NRA has a long history of supporting measures to keep guns out of the hands of violent criminals and those who have been adjudicated by a court as mentally incompetent, and we will continue to do so. We will also continue our efforts to make sure that the National Instant Background Check System (NICS) is accurate, fair, and instant by seeking changes to permanently ensure that no fee is associated with the check, that system outages are minimized, and that our men and women in uniform who have served our country honorably are not unjustly denied their constitutional rights. As always, the NRA is committed to ensuring that any proposal does not infringe upon the rights of law-abiding gun owners.

    It is impossible to predict right now what any final bill will look like; therefore, we will withhold judgment until we see a final product. However, the NRA will continue to work with Members of Congress throughout the process to ensure that any changes to the NICS benefit lawful gun purchasers while ensuring that those adjudicated by the courts as mentally incompetent are included in the system.

    Including necessary records on prohibited persons into the NICS is a position we have long supported. However, history has shown that no law will stop a madman intent on doing evil.

    The NRA believes that our schools are not adequately protected. Therefore, we believe a national conversation on school security is necessary, and we look forward to those discussions and finding meaningful solutions to keep America’s children safe.

    For more information, visit http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactShe...=217&issue=018
    Press the fight!

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    (ok, I came in to this one late and didn't read all 5 pages before posting, so I hope I'm not repeating anyone here)

    Once upon a time in this country, most of those in the legal profession (from judges to lawyers down to cops walking a beat) believed in the concept of innocent until proved guilty and the old adage "its better that 100 guilty men go free than to punish one innocent man".

    I fear that those days are gone (and it was those attitudes that made America a truly free place).

    "Strengthening" the background checks ... changing the laws to include more and more mental illnesses on the list of things that end a basic Constitutional right*, this is moving away from the idea that one must be proved guilty in a court of law by due process before a right can be taken away and also moves us away from the idea that the ends don't justify the means and that punishing more innocents is ok if it means you get more of the badguys.


    Thats why I oppose background checks in general and "strengthening" them in particular. I don't see this as doing more good than harm.


    *The definitions of mental illness change all the time ... and they are changed by people with no accountability and without a "vote by the people or their representatives". Remember, homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness. All you need is enough mental health professionals and academics to decide that "Hoplophilia" or religious belief are serious mental illnesses.

    EDIT
    I stumbled across this discussion on THR http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=273456

    There are plenty of mental health "professionals" that apparently believe that CCW is a sign of mental illness. Kinda makes my point.
    Last edited by Zundfolge; April 28th, 2007 at 12:46 AM.

  9. #53
    Member Array DakotaXD's Avatar
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    What are you going to do?

    http://www.firearmscoalition.org/alerts/msg00053.html

    What are you going to do?

    * Date: Thu Apr 26 1352 2007


    Action demands counter-action and the Brady's latest campaign needs
    to be answered. Gun rights activists have proven over and over again
    that they can overwhelm politicians with calls, letters, and e-mails and
    we need to be doing so right now.
    Even though the American people have made it pretty clear that they
    are not interested in seeing additional restrictions on firearms, and
    the politicians from both sides of the aisle in Washington are reticent
    to make calls for new gun control measures, the threat remains. Many --
    if not most -- politicians have an inclination toward government
    control, including government control of firearms. The only thing
    holding these tendencies in check is the well-founded belief that taking
    action in support of gun control is political suicide.
    Sarah Brady is mounting a relentless fundraising and activism
    campaign based around the theme, "What are you going to do about gun
    violence in America?" She is challenging supporters to take action by
    asking politicians that question and by making a contribution to her
    organization ($32 in honor of the 32 dead in Blacksburg). Sarah says
    the campaign is working. She claims that more than 50,000 calls and
    e-mails have been sent to political leaders since the tragic events at
    Virginia Tech last week, asking them, "What are YOU going to do about
    gun violence?" The anti-gun, mainstream media has stepped up to do
    their part, inviting Jim and Sarah, and their key staffers to appear on
    the major news/talk programs and providing them with the opportunity to
    try to make the senseless murders in Blacksburg into a rallying call for
    gun restrictions.
    If supporters of liberty sit in silence or try to appease the
    gun-haters, the politicians might conclude that the American people are
    ready to support more erosion of our civil rights. The only way to
    ensure this doesn't happen is to keep the politicians on notice that
    support for gun control equals early retirement. Sarah Brady's 50,000
    contacts is barely a ripple compared to the waves of messages the gun
    rights community can deliver. Such a deluge needs to occur right now.
    Politicians need to hear loud and clear that GunVoters will not
    tolerate any further encroachment and would like to see repeal of the
    existing restrictions. Senators and Representatives need to understand
    that "compromise" legislation like Carolyn McCarthy's H.R.297 will not
    be excused even if NRA gives them a green light. The "servants of the
    people" need to hear from you today in a clear, unambiguous way that any
    and all legislation to expand or enhance gun control efforts will result
    in adverse consequences in the next election.
    *What are YOU doing to defend liberty and protect gun rights?*
    Take action and demand action! Never depend on the other guy to do
    the work for you.
    Send messages to your elected officials today.
    Copy this Alert to every pro-liberty forum and web site you can find.
    Make a contribution to the Firearms Coalition, subscribe to our
    newsletter, and encourage others to do the same.
    The tide toward gun control seems to be changing in our favor, but
    that can be reversed in a moment if rights activists drop their guard.
    Complacency is our greatest enemy.
    Send Sarah Brady a clear and resounding answer to her question,
    "What are you going to do...?" Show her and the waffling politicians
    what true citizen activism is all about.

    Yours for the Second Amendment,

    Jeff
    Jeff Knox
    Director of Operations
    The Firearms Coalition
    Neal Knox Associates
    Box 3313
    Manassas, VA 20108
    www.FirearmsCoalition.org
    Jeff at FirearmsCoalition dot org
    "Old Marines never die, we just smell like it." USMC 71'-83'


    Stay Safe

  10. #54
    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    has anyone heard anything else about this??
    Timmy Jimmy

    If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.

    "Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."

  11. #55
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    Will this check be required for gun show sales? What if you sell to a crazy person? They will have to then go after all private sales to. This will give the Anti's a foot hold on lots of other legislation.

    What about a crazy person going to get one on the streets? Don't tell me they can't my brother has mental problems and he has friends that could get him one if he wanted. While I would agree with this legislation in principle it dose open us up to potential great abuse.
    -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
    -The truth is a three edged sword.
    -Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
    -When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.

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