Gov. Kaine didn't wait long

This is a discussion on Gov. Kaine didn't wait long within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I just heard on the radio that Virginia Governor Tim Kaine has indicated that he can use an executive order to close "the loophole" that ...

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Thread: Gov. Kaine didn't wait long

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    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    Gov. Kaine didn't wait long

    I just heard on the radio that Virginia Governor Tim Kaine has indicated that he can use an executive order to close "the loophole" that allowed the VT shooter to buy his guns.

    I haven't heard any details about this but it sounds omminous. Kaine thinks he has the authority to change Virginia's gun laws without getting legislative approval.

    Scary. I will post more if I can find out anything.

    I actually posted this just to rant a little and calm myself down.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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    Distinguished Member Array 4my son's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
    I haven't heard any details about this but it sounds omminous. Kaine thinks he has the authority to change Virginia's gun laws without getting legislative approval.
    I'd like to know how he intends to do that too, and if it's that easy, why didn't he do it already? Hummmmm
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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
    I just heard on the radio that Virginia Governor Tim Kaine has indicated that he can use an executive order to close "the loophole" that allowed the VT shooter to buy his guns.

    I haven't heard any details about this but it sounds omminous. Kaine thinks he has the authority to change Virginia's gun laws without getting legislative approval.

    Scary. I will post more if I can find out anything.

    I actually posted this just to rant a little and calm myself down.
    What station was that on...I'd love to get ahold of the transcripts!
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    Distinguished Member Array 4my son's Avatar
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    Here's the scoop.

    Kaine on a mission
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

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    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    You could look at it another way. Maybe he did wait too long. If this was an option all along to insure that wacko's couldn't get guns, why didn't someone suggest it earlier?

    May be the headline should read, "Governor's Inaction Costs 32 Lives." In this day and age you can twist the news any way you want to.

    He is not actually changing gun-laws, he is changing the way that state organizations share data. This would allow the State Police to access state mental health records while running the background check to determine if someone should be denied authorization to purchase a firearm. Not as ominous as it sounds, but still needs to be monitored closely due to the potential for abuse.
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    Distinguished Member Array 4my son's Avatar
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    Also, follow the links on the right, there is a video segment about it, the NRA has said if states start to make these kinds of changes, they will not oppose it. Some states don't report any mental health issues that would show up on background checks.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

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    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    To play devil's advocate here, if such a rule is enacted, what's to stop some anti gun judge like New Yorks Judge Weinstein from declaring any gun owner who comes before him as being mentally defective.

    Remember, the judge in Cho's case only ordered him to seek treatment. The shrinks at the hospital decided that he wasn't a wacko who needed to be locked up.

    When an anti like Kaine proposes something, it always looks suspect to me.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
    To play devil's advocate here, if such a rule is enacted, what's to stop some anti gun judge like New Yorks Judge Weinstein from declaring any gun owner who comes before him as being mentally defective.

    Remember, the judge in Cho's case only ordered him to seek treatment. The shrinks at the hospital decided that he wasn't a wacko who needed to be locked up.

    When an anti like Kaine proposes something, it always looks suspect to me.
    Maybe so, but I don't think that any of us would argue that, given Cho's history, he was a loose cannon ready to ignite and should not have been permitted to buy a gun. Although I agree that it is subject to potential abuse, I fear that if we start opposing these kind of changes it will backfire on us.

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    More political than tangible, I think

    I believe the primary requirement regarding mental health and buying a gun from an FFL dealer is question number f. on the first page of ATF form #4473, which can be viewed on the ATF website. This question, for the buyer to answer, says:

    "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective or have you been committed to a mental institution?"

    The buyer checks yes or no in response to this. If he checks yes, the FFL dealer can't sell him a gun, and he would be turned away. If he checks no on this question and meets all the other requirements, the FFL will do a NICS check on the phone with the Federal database. I don't believe the NICS database contains mental health data, so the buyer would pass based on his own statement. And I would point out that you could be mentally ill but have avoided having a judge issue an order to that effect. Voluntary trips to the shrink would not qualify.

    Perhaps Virginia has some additional state requirements that I don't know about. But I would be surprised if Virginia has a complete database of mental health data on all Virginia citizens. Perhaps this could be created, but at what cost and how long would it take? And it would probably not cover such records from other states or countries, where the Virginia resident may have lived in the past. So I am skeptical about how easily the governor could do anything useful with just an "executive order".

    It sounds more like political grandstanding to me.

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    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pogo2 View Post
    It sounds more like political grandstanding to me.
    Probably so. Now that you mention it, I am not sure how they would get the info from other states.

    Seems like all hat and no cattle.
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    "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective or have you been committed to a mental institution?"

    You would have to be really crazy AND really stupid to answer 'Yes' - if you lie, it means nothing, they never prosecute because it is self-incrimination.
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    How About An Executive Order...

    to allow CCW on each college campus?
    This gets to the core of the problem...

    ret
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    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    to allow CCW on each college campus?
    This gets to the core of the problem...

    ret
    Before that would happen, God would have to issue an executive order granting our Governor some common sense.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Maybe so, but I don't think that any of us would argue that, given Cho's history, he was a loose cannon ready to ignite and should not have been permitted to buy a gun. Although I agree that it is subject to potential abuse, I fear that if we start opposing these kind of changes it will backfire on us.

    Ron
    Judges are not mental health professionals and that's why the judge ordered him to be evaluated. Judges do this a lot and if every one of those had their 2A right taken away, I think that would be very, very wrong.

    I think this was a single-case issue. If it was so obvious that he was going to be a problem then the psych who evaluated him should be investigated and possibly sued for malpractice. But we shouldn't punish every other Virginian who has had 'issues' at one time or other.
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    I knew there was a reason to distrust Kaine...all you nay sayers...his true colors may well be starting to show. Got in my car this morning to head off to work. As it happens I had left my radio station on 102.5 (country station). I heard mention of the VT tragedy so I left it on....what I heard next....The hosts mentioned that Kaine recently stated something to the effect of the VT tragedy showing that they need to close the "gun show loophole" in VA!

    How might you ask, do we close a non-existent gun show loophole? Oh wait...the only way I can see that happening is making private sale illegal -just my thoughts!

    I'm going to try to research that statement a bit more today as I have time and/or see if I can get ahold of the transcripts for that stations show this morning. I'm really hoping they misunderstood/quoted him so I would like to get ahold of the transcripts if they have them. I suspect though...Kaine is going to use this VT thing as a platform and let his true colors run.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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