Pro 2nd arguing against RKBA

Pro 2nd arguing against RKBA

This is a discussion on Pro 2nd arguing against RKBA within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I was wondering this just came to me. For a living I work in training/teaching etc.... In any educational training that I've done, I've always ...

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Thread: Pro 2nd arguing against RKBA

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    Pro 2nd arguing against RKBA

    I was wondering this just came to me. For a living I work in training/teaching etc.... In any educational training that I've done, I've always been told that you don't really know something until you have taught it. I know this sounds weird but has anybody ever tried and changed hats, lets say a college paper or even a highschool paper, and tried to argue against the 2nd amendment just to see if you could turn a irrational argument into a "Hypothetical" as close to a rational argument as your could?

    I guess what I'm saying something along the same lines as keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. Keep your pro secomend knowledge close, but keep your anti second amendment knowledge even closer. Therefore be able to argue their side only to make your side stronger. I probably coming across poorly on this cause is so hard to even fathom.

    It was a good idea and it made sense 10 minutes ago but now it dosn't right now. I'll come back and see if it comes back to me.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    I have a hard time getting through STUPID if you know what I mean. I rarely hear a new argument against the 2A. It's the same old la la land, sheep bleating, feel good rhetoric and little else. When you hear someone say for instance they just don't see the need for a gun, and you point out all the defensive times they are used but they remain unconvinced, I have to shake my head in wonderment.

    When a new state tries to change their carry law to shall issue you will hear the same crap Florida heard 20 years ago when they were the first to pass said law. You know, blood in the streets and wild west shootouts. Since that hasn't happened anywhere why do we still hear that tired argument? Because the sheep can't come up with anything new.
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    I think being anti-2A depends on having a very different set of values, which is why it's hard for people here to understand or relate to.

    For instance, check out the recent thread about the woman who claims to be a native Texan who grew up around guns, but moved to NYC and now feels no need for one, and claims that (get this) feeling vulnerable makes her feel stronger. I don't know about you, but I prefer to be prepared (part of being a boy scout perhaps), and I'm also a proponent of safety: would you drive without seatbelts, or use power tools without safety glasses, or use a table saw without push sticks? I don't really like feeling vulnerable to death or maiming when it's easily preventable, but I guess people like her like to play the odds.

    Other anti-2A people talk a lot about how valuable criminals' lives are. We shouldn't shoot criminals, because their life is just as valuable as our own, they shouldn't die when they probably only wanted our TV, etc. I just don't know how to respond to this kind of mentality, but there it is.

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    Trust me you don't have to win me over. I was asking if anybody has actually attempted the other argument. In highschool I remember are teacher giving us a list of things to write about. I remember that one of the topics was why there should be gun control. I was on the highschool rifle team at the time, so I remember ducking away from it. I think I wrote about abortion or something, but thinking back to it. I wonder if I should have maybe taken the Challenge.
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; May 3rd, 2007 at 04:09 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    A good sorce for the objections to the 2A is to go to the Brady Campaign web site and look at their argument, read them, and think about them from the other side of the fence, I have done this often, looking at how to streighten my arguments supporting the 2A. IMO, if you can with your points, counter theirs before they even get to use them, you are one step ahead.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Trust me you don't have to win me over. I was asking if anybody has actually attempted the other argument. In highschool I remember are teacher giving us a list of things to write about. I remember that one of the topics was why there should be gun control. I was on the highschool rifle team at the time, so I remember ducking away from it. I think I wrote about abortion or something, but thinking back to it. I wonder if I should have maybe taken the Challenge.
    I have before on a different set of forums. I feel that the best way to strengthen your arguments is to try another side or at the very least to argue with a lot of people that completely disagree with you.

    I can't successfully argue the point. Every single time I have to revert to an emotional argument to get anywhere. Which is cheap and of course unwinnable from a facts and logic standpoint.

    I do agree with the poster above that it's an individual outlook upon life. I think it works because a lot of people aren't self-reliant or don't know that it's an option. It's really pretty sad.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    I've found that examining a different perspective helps me refine my own, as well.

    However, I could not seriously propound such ideas with intellectual honesty. Playing devil's advocate is one thing, but it's always followed closely by a rational rebuttal.

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    A professor of mine hosted a small debate between students about this. One of my buddies who is a pretty die-hard Pro-2A volunteered to argue against. He gave our side a run for our money, but was backed into a corner a few times.

    Can't say I've ever tried.
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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    I have a hard time getting through STUPID if you know what I mean. I rarely hear a new argument against the 2A. It's the same old la la land, sheep bleating, feel good rhetoric and little else. When you hear someone say for instance they just don't see the need for a gun, and you point out all the defensive times they are used but they remain unconvinced, I have to shake my head in wonderment.

    When a new state tries to change their carry law to shall issue you will hear the same crap Florida heard 20 years ago when they were the first to pass said law. You know, blood in the streets and wild west shootouts. Since that hasn't happened anywhere why do we still hear that tired argument? Because the sheep can't come up with anything new.
    Excellent points. I'm in full agreement.

    As far as the "blood in the streets, wild west shootout" argument, I'm as baffled as you. It is so thoroughly bankrupt of all sense and reason -- given the ample opportunity for it to have happened, and yet it never has -- that it's just incomprehensible that the argument is ever still made. Even more incomprehensible that it isn't shut right down the minuted it is uttered.

    How does that crap manage to get any traction?! It's like if people were still arguing, "Man was never meant to fly," after 104 years of aviation.

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Trust me you don't have to win me over. I was asking if anybody has actually attempted the other argument.

    My thought on this is that once you have become familiar with the reasoned truth regarding gun ownership, and have come to understand the fraud and the lies that are the underpinnings that support gun control, you would not be able to even "play devil's advocate" and argue hypothetically for gun control because you would know fully that you were lying in order to pretend it would ever work.

    How could you do that? I mean, every word out of your mouth would be something you knew was a deliberate lie or distortion.

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Excellent points. I'm in full agreement.

    As far as the "blood in the streets, wild west shootout" argument, I'm as baffled as you. It is so thoroughly bankrupt of all sense and reason -- given the ample opportunity for it to have happened, and yet it never has -- that it's just incomprehensible that the argument is ever still made. Even more incomprehensible that it isn't shut right down the minuted it is uttered.

    How does that crap manage to get any traction?! It's like if people were still arguing, "Man was never meant to fly," after 104 years of aviation.
    I love the Wild West shootouts argument. When you actually look at the numbers, the Wild West was safer than the "developed" East.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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