Response from MI rep about eliminating no carry zones - Page 2

Response from MI rep about eliminating no carry zones

This is a discussion on Response from MI rep about eliminating no carry zones within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by tvsjr Wrong tactic. Call him on it. Tell him you're interested in his perspective and would like to know what statistics he's ...

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Thread: Response from MI rep about eliminating no carry zones

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvsjr View Post
    Wrong tactic. Call him on it. Tell him you're interested in his perspective and would like to know what statistics he's seen which point to CCW causing shootings. You'll get some song and dance, and he'll probably come up with some generalized statistics somewhere. Have your own verifiable statistics ready (which, more than likely, indicate that CCW holders are involved in significantly less violent crimes of any type). Hit him with that, see what he does. Try to catch him in a lie.
    Okay, at face value, this all seems to make sense.

    But it makes a fatally flawed assumption, and that is that the guy WANTS TO BOTHER with facts and truths.

    The reason I say don't even try to convert him is because I firmly believe that anyone who would say what he said in his reply is a person who is steadfast and willfully disingenuous about this issue and will not allow his mind to be changed. Thus, you would be wasting your time. He'll only get more adamant and resolute, until such time as he puts on an act of being frustrated by you, pretends that you are the one being unreasonable, and shuts you out.

    Come on, folks, we've seen this type. We know what they're like.


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array Ryan H's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Come on, folks, we've seen this type. We know what they're like.
    Kind of like when an inadequate politician makes the general assumption that guns equate to crime, right? Jumping to conclusions isn't the answer here, give him a chance to learn before throwing in the towel. The same treatment that we should be getting, however we don't always get it. At least be fair so he deserves whats coming to him!

  3. #18
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    .

    You would be wasting your time trying to change his way of thinking (I use the term "thinking" very loosely). Better off supporting his opponent(s).
    You are probably correct, but, if he is willing to "Waste his time" I think that it is a mistake to let those kinds of misstatments go unchallenged. And, of course, also support his opponents.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  4. #19
    Member Array tvsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Thus, you would be wasting your time. He'll only get more adamant and resolute, until such time as he puts on an act of being frustrated by you, pretends that you are the one being unreasonable, and shuts you out.
    I think you're immediately assuming him to be another bonehead politician that won't listen. You're most likely right. However, it's worth a shot to see if he's not and might be swayed by facts. If you are right, it's worth gathering the exchange and then disseminating it far and wide (including to any state-level gun rights orgs of which the OP might be a member) to make sure everyone else knows.

  5. #20
    Member Array Kompact9's Avatar
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    Think I'd write and tell him that you and a lot of your voting and gun owning friends just volunteered to be part of the campaign to elect "whoever" was running against him at the next election. I'd remind him that his personal opinion about guns shouldn't determine how he votes or what bills he backs; his constituents opinions are what count. He supposed to be a "servant of the public", not a lord and master as he seems to think he is. Too many of our elected representatives are starting to believe in "noblesse oblige" and are starting to think of us "serfs or peons" as not being able to decide or think for ourselves.
    noli nothis permittere te terere...

  6. #21
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    Dear Mr Vagnozzi:
    Thank you for your response. It is always nice to be characterized as criminal by my local representative.

    Yours:
    Mr. "Forget about my vote and a contribution."
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  7. #22
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    Too many of our elected representatives are starting to believe in "noblesse oblige" and are starting to think of us "serfs or peons" as not being able to decide or think for ourselves.
    Truly superb observation K9 !!!
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  8. #23
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    I sent an email to Vagnozzi. That's the best I can do.Chuck.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Steve48's Avatar
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    Rude and ignorant people are everywhere. Steve48

  10. #25
    Member Array Philbert's Avatar
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    Sent an e-mail to our Rep. Steve Bieda who sits on the Judiciary Committee a couple weeks ago asking for his support of this bill, or at least his opinion. Not even the courtesy of a response so far. I guess that in itself speaks volumes. Gotta just love these............nope, not gonna go there!

  11. #26
    Member Array LMarshall73's Avatar
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    In all honesty, Michigan's "pistol free zones" are nearly identical to Florida's:

    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    3. Sports arena or stadium

    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

    7. A hospital

    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    9. A Casino


    "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kompact9 View Post
    He supposed to be a "servant of the public", not a lord and master as he seems to think he is. Too many of our elected representatives are starting to believe in "noblesse oblige" and are starting to think of us "serfs or peons" as not being able to decide or think for ourselves.
    You could remind him of what happened in the last election cycle to John Swartz, you remember him, he thought he was smarter than his constituents, and voted how he wanted and not them.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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