Great Britain has a gun problem!

This is a discussion on Great Britain has a gun problem! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by mtnfreak We all know that the rights of gun owners in Britain are a tad more restricted than we enjoy here. After ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 41

Thread: Great Britain has a gun problem!

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfreak View Post
    We all know that the rights of gun owners in Britain are a tad more restricted than we enjoy here. After Sony used some CGI showing Manchester Cathedral as the scene of a battle in the PS3 game 'Resistance: Fall of Man' the Church of England got a little upset. Upset enough to point out that Britain's gun laws aren't working:
    The bishop of Manchester, the Rt. Rev. Nigel McCulloch, said: "It is well known that Manchester has a gun crime problem. For a global manufacturer to recreate one of our great cathedrals with photorealistic quality and then encourage people to have gunbattles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible."

    I'm not quite sure what he is saying is so irresponsible about it.
    Is he suggesting that because people play at shooting enemies in a video game that takes place in the cathedral, they will seek out illegal guns in England with which to re-enact shootings in that same cathedral?

    I mean, does he think that british criminals have nothing better to do if and when they acquire guns than to go and pretend they're in a video game? What would the criminals gain by shooting around inside the cathedral? Wouldn't they rather be out robbing people?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocolo View Post
    It is human nature to be adaptive and resourceful. If a firearm is not readily available any other tool will sufice. By the way spoons as "shanks" are allready in use in the "pen".
    Speaking of which: um, when they've finished banning guns, toy guns, knives, forks, spoons... they'll come to realize that people can be killed when a PEN is shoved into their skulls, and so I guess we'll have to ban those, too.

    These contemptible MORONS. How badly are we supposed to let them screw up the mentality of society, and the laws of society, before we stop them and say they've been wrong all along, and it was IDIOTIC to go after the weapons people use but ignore the people and mindsets that were using them?!

    Are we really going to let them continue to try to eliminate from the world anything and everything that could ever theoretically be used to harm another person?! That's just INSANITY.

    By the way, I love HALO. Great game. Another favorite of mine is Perfect Dark for the N64. Yes, I still have that platform in use.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Janq as a youth was stabbed in the lower back during a street fight with a sharpened #2 pencil

    Well, clearly that illustrates that if we are going to make humanity safe from criminal predation, we'll have to ban everything on down through the pencil.

    Sorry to anyone out there who ever wanted to write anything again. But as another famous Brit once said, "We've got to protect the public! (Gold star for anyone who gets the quote.)



    But seriously. When something as innocuous as a pencil can be used as a weapon, why is it that these prohibitionists cannot see that banning implements is not the way to go, and cannot possibly work??

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    In the U.S., on occasion we have widely reported incidents involving mass shootings at schools (or sometimes foiled attempts at such).

    While the world decries these events, rightfully, they amount to exceedingly rare, isolated occurrences -- concentrated doses of violence.

    But what seems to be the norm in britain is a more decentralized violence; rather than a few highly publicized killings -- incidents of concentrated, high-level violence -- occurring rarely, britain seems to be having an epidemic of less sensational violence (stabbings, hammer attacks, etc.) but spaced out more evenly and more commonly in more areas.

    Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have what the U.S. has, and suffer a rare shooting now and then rather than have every single day of daily school life be one of chaos and anarchy in a lawless environment where the authorities seem utterly powerless to control kids!

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    One last item...

    Even if the UK were to say restrict framing hammers and such (!) there is still the matter of common household use hammering devices such as the meat tenderizing hammer which are hammers too and can be just as effective if not more depending on how the operator applies it...

    Imagine being smashed in the head, face, or body with one of these!


    Everything is a weapon...until every literal thing is outlawed.

    - Janq

    "Stop! Hammer time!" - MC Hammer
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    568

    Sigh.....

    Next, there will be an epidemic of paper cuts in schools. So , they will revert to hammers, chisels and stone tablets.

    Wait, thats dangerous too.

    OK. computers only. No paper. Wait, maybe they will start using the power cords as a garotte or some sort of mace (the plug's in UK are fairly large and substantial).

    OK, back to paper. Maybe only toilet paper is allowed. No paper cuts there. Of course, the only thing they can write on them with is a marker pen.

    Wait, they might start sniffing the pens and get high.

    OK, close down the schools. Hard to have a school shooting or stabbing without a school.

    Pat yourselves on the back for FINALLY solving the problem.

  8. #22
    Member Array BobCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Bernard, TX
    Posts
    23
    Dare I suggest that, if framing hammers are being used as weapons in attacks on persons, they ought to be be supplanted by... nail guns?
    Retractable claws... the original concealed carry
    http://www.bayourifles.org

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Except companies like Paslode and De Walt make cordless nail guns that could be used to cause harm.

  10. #24
    Member Array BobCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Bernard, TX
    Posts
    23
    So could a cordless circular saw. So could a chainsaw (that movie might be too - old but there were sequels).

    We agree that anything can be used as a weapon, so "banning" weapons is foolish and counter productive. What I fail to understand is the mentality that finds banning weapons logical or reasonable.

    I have a friend who is a generation older than I am - he was a sailor in the British Mechant Marine during WWII. His perspective on these matters is interesting because he grew up in Britian in a time before "gun control" became popular. When we discuss why our US culture seems more violent than that of his old country, the idea comes up that this country is made up of people from many other lands. It is easier to work up hatred for someone whose people speak a different lanugage, whose customs and culture are different, and are in general alien - than for someone who is a lot like you and yours.

    Now that the homogeneity of British culture is no more - many immigrant groups have take up residence - this principle may be at work.

    Anyway, sorry for straying off-topic. Guns, knives, swords, hammers, nail guns, chain saws, or meat tenderizers - can all be weapons. Intent and action are what matter. The difference between a sugeon's scalpel and a punk's switchblade lies more in the intent of the holder than in the blade itself.
    Retractable claws... the original concealed carry
    http://www.bayourifles.org

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Quote Originally Posted by BobCat View Post
    Dare I suggest that, if framing hammers are being used as weapons in attacks on persons, they ought to be be supplanted by... nail guns?
    Bob,

    Being 100% serious I had posted a year ago at another forum in a self defense thread that if firearms were restricted in my town/state or America overall like they are in England and I didn't for reasons choose to possess illegally I would then head on over to Home Depot and invest in a nail gun. Specifically one that is propellant powered. The antis in that forums thread scoffed...untill I came back with a long list of attacks (not accidents) as reported in the news with use of nail guns toward criminal activity.

    Nail guns are effective for as much...

    Four people shot at with nail gun
    Police are searching for the passenger of a white van who is believed to have fired a nail gun at people in Kent.
    Last Updated: Monday, 14 May 2007, 11:29 GMT 12:29 UK
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...nt/6653825.stm

    Bus driver is shot with nail gun
    A female bus driver was shot in the stomach with a nail gun in what police said was a racially motivated attack.
    Last Updated: Tuesday, 22 June, 2004, 16:31 GMT 17:31 UK
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/3830677.stm

    Man 'shot in face with nail gun'
    A man has been shot with a nail gun in what police say was an unprovoked attack in south Bristol.
    Tuesday, 9 August 2005, 16:10 GMT 17:10 UK
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...et/4135976.stm

    Aggravated Robbery at Devonport Bowling Club
    2:29pm 1 July 2006
    "...One of the group calmly invited the offender to sit down and join them in game of cards. The offender reacted by using abusive language, and he then fired the nail gun. The nail went into the top of a leader table located close by them. All three victims were forced into the female toilets in the clubrooms. One of the group was manhandled by the offender..."
    http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/2495.html

    Nail Gun Used in Fatal Nevada County Shooting
    Created: 10/24/2005 353 PM
    Updated: 10/24/2005 9:03:09 PM
    http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=13856

    Man, 31, dies after assault with bat
    Neighbor charged; cites confrontation
    By Ralph Ranalli, Globe Staff | March 20, 2006
    "A Roxbury man who allegedly brandished a nail gun during a fight last week died yesterday of head injuries allegedly inflicted by a neighbor who wielded a baseball bat in the confrontation, police said..."
    http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ault_with_bat/

    Governor Authorizes Reward in Sandman Park Murder Case
    Created: 12/2/2005 11:26:53 AM
    Updated: 12/3/2005 1:45:16 AM
    "...The Stockton woman's body was found in Mosher Slough near the park a year ago today. She had been stabbed while walking her dog in the middle of the afternoon. She'd also been struck by a large nail, which has led investigator to believe her assailant used a nailgun..."
    http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=14582

    At close range home defense type instances nail guns might be an effective deterrent toward home invaders.
    Some of the better units have cycle rates that are pretty darn high not to mention use projectiles that vary in size and application from nails for wood to those toward concrete and even steel. If it's designed to penetrate inches of concrete or steel then human skin should prove to be no problem in so far as effectiveness.
    Many ofthe latest design units are small and very much portable as well.

    Everything is a weapon, when applied as such by folk with intent. :\

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #26
    Member Array BobCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Bernard, TX
    Posts
    23
    Janq,

    You are right, a portable nail gun is powered by cartridges that are basically .22 cartridges.

    And you are right that intent is a determining factor.

    I thought I was being funny: if they ban guns and in consequence people use hammers as weapons, maybe they "need" to ban hammers - then people who want to drive nails will be driven to use nail guns. And people who want to beat or shoot each other can use nail guns too...

    I think we can agree that banning implements is ineffective in changing behavior. I also believe that people who are afraid of weapons are really expressing their fear of their own violent impulses - but again I'm straying off topic.
    Retractable claws... the original concealed carry
    http://www.bayourifles.org

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Agreed.. I'd picked up on your as the English say 'humour'. :p
    Definitely banning implements and tools is not the route to go even if said tool(s) are designed with an intent toward 'killing' or simulation there of (e.g. target/sporting firearms).

    I may have come off overly serious but I'm totally agreeing with you.
    Nail guns, hammers, standard screwdrivers, box cutters, ice picks, knitting awls, plastic pocket pencil sharpeners, and broken pop bottles are dangerous only in the hands of those with malicious intent.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #28
    Member Array BobCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Bernard, TX
    Posts
    23
    Ok, one more wisecrack and I'll let it go.

    People at work know I shoot - I'm always trying to get people to come to the Garand Match (it is a "just for FUN and to get your match bulletin for the CMP kind of thing) - or just to the range to make holes in paper.

    There is a soccer field at work and a lot of people play in the evening and on weekends. Don't ask me why soccer instead of softball - the company employs lots of people from many countries.

    So, I get quite a kick out of teasing soccer-players on crutches about their violent, dangerous pastime - always suggesting they would be safer at the range with 20-30 folks with battle rifles. Now I'm going to click on the grinning smiley-face and see if it works.
    Retractable claws... the original concealed carry
    http://www.bayourifles.org

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    1,862
    A little tidbit on how the press (poorly) tried to bend the facts, from:
    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/

    "Corrective on gun crime statistics"


    OTTAWA (CP) - The Canadian Press erroneously reported June 1 that there was a 16 per cent drop in the number of firearms crimes in the United Kingdom in 2006 compared with the previous year. In fact, figures from Britain's Home Office show there was a 16 per cent drop in the number of handgun crimes in the year ended March 31, 2005, compared with the same period a year previous.

    In addition, the story should have included information from the Home Office that supports Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day's assertion that the number of overall offences involving firearms has increased in Britain each year since handguns were banned in 1997.


    Bob Tarantino gets results!

    June 2, 2007
    Canadian Press Vs Stockwell Day: Malpractice or Malice?
    Bob Tarantino;


    At 4:38pm (the time I accessed the story) on Friday, June 1, 2007, this story, carried at the Toronto Star website, reads (in part) as follows:

    The federal Conservative government has rejected Ontario's call for a ban on handguns. ... [Stockwell] Day argued that other countries where handguns have been banned have seen the numbers of gun crimes increase. "In jurisdictions that have eliminated or tried to eliminate, to ban handguns – the United Kingdom, Ireland, other jurisdictions – in fact crime with guns has unfortunately gone up," Day said.

    Here comes the torque:

    Day's statements, however, don't appear to match with the facts.

    Interesting. And, dear Canadian Press, what evidence do you marshall to maintain this assertion?

    There was a 16 per cent drop in the number of firearms offences in the United Kingdom in 2006 compared with the previous year, according to figures from Britain's Home Office.

    I know this particular blogging tic is increasingly frowned upon, but permit me to indulge: You. Absolute. Morons.

    Read the whole thing. Terry Pedwell doesn't get the stats a "little" wrong. He gets them deceptively wrong.

    For further proof of the correctness of Day's statement, and the absolute mendacity of the Canadian Press, let's look at this Home Office report. Here's what it reveals: there was a sixty percent (60%) increase in firearms crime from 1999/00 to 2004/05 (page 72). Also see Figure 3.4 - although it is a bit difficult to tell because the gradations are not provided, firearms crimes involving handguns more than doubled from 1998/99 to 2001/02, before declining somewhat until 2004/05, though finishing at a number approximately 50% higher than in 1998/99.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,548
    Ain't nothin' they do over there regarding guns and such that will surprise me anymore.

    Lunacy.

    Kind of like New York or D.C. or Chicago. But older and bigger.

    Ugh.
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


    Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Article: Great Britain now the world's most violent developed country
    By Canuck in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: August 9th, 2011, 09:04 AM
  2. Common Sense (belatedly) Prevails in Great Britain.
    By socal2310 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: February 19th, 2010, 04:10 PM
  3. "Knife Crime" on the Rise in Great Britain
    By EdC in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: March 5th, 2009, 11:37 PM
  4. Important Video From Great Britain
    By calmp9 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: October 3rd, 2008, 09:41 AM
  5. Great Britain reposessing the USA
    By goldshellback in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: June 20th, 2008, 02:56 PM

Search tags for this page

gun problems in britain

,

manchester gun problem

Click on a term to search for related topics.