Great Britain has a gun problem! - Page 3

Great Britain has a gun problem!

This is a discussion on Great Britain has a gun problem! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As reported in 2003 by the Telegraph (UK): Gun crime claims 30 victims every day By John Steele, Crime Correspondent, and George Jones Last Updated: ...

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Thread: Great Britain has a gun problem!

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Gun crime claims 30 victims every day (UK)

    As reported in 2003 by the Telegraph (UK):

    Gun crime claims 30 victims every day

    By John Steele, Crime Correspondent, and George Jones
    Last Updated: 1:34am GMT 10/01/2003

    Crimes involving firearms increased by 35 per cent last year to record levels, with nearly 30 incidents every day, according to new Home Office figures for recorded crime.

    In nearly a quarter of the total of 9,974 offences, a rise from 7,362 in the previous year, guns were fired. Gun killings rose sharply.

    The figures were condemned as "truly terrible" by Oliver Letwin, Conservative home affairs spokesman.

    Gun crime has more than doubled since Labour came to power in 1997. David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, will today hold talks with police chiefs, community representatives, customs and immigration officials and crown prosecutors on ways to combat the growing use of guns by criminals.

    The latest figures, which do not include air weapons, are heavily dominated by the use of handguns, either fired or used to threaten in nearly 60 per cent of cases.

    Handguns were outlawed by the Government in the year after the Dunblane massacre in 1996, but the number of crimes involving handguns has more than doubled since the ban, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871 last year.

    Injuries inflicted by handguns also more than doubled, from 317 in 1997/1998 to 648 last year.

    The increased use of handguns bears out criticism that the ban took weapons out of the hands of law-abiding shooting club members rather than criminals and had no impact on gun crime.

    The number of firearms homicides has more than doubled since 1998-1999, while non-firearms killings rose by only 21 per cent.

    The total number of gun killings in 2001-2002 was 97, an increase of 32 per cent - or 23 deaths - on the previous year. The vast majority of cases involved young men in inner city areas.

    In 1977 there were 413 homicides, of which only 28 were gun-related. Last year, the 97 compared to 832 homicides overall last year, a significant increase in the proportion of killings caused by firearms.

    Firearms were increasingly used in robberies, including muggings, last year. Firearms robberies leapt by a third between 2001 and 2002 and accounted for more than half of all firearms offences.

    Gun violence was heavily concentrated in a small number of big city police forces, particularly the Metropolitan, Greater Manchester and West Midlands areas.

    Each has suffered substantial amounts of "black-on-black" gun crime.

    In the Met, gun crime leapt year on year from 2,817 incidents to 4,192; in Greater Manchester from 964 to 1,361; and in the West Midlands, where two girls were shot at a party last week, from 887 to 1,298.

    Gun crime has continued to be a problem throughout 2002, though forces devoted considerable resources to fighting it.

    John Denham, the Home Office Minister, said the Government was "concerned" over the significant rise in firearm offences. Efforts would now be targeted on such offences, with a new five-year minimum sentence for possession of a firearm as well as tougher laws on air weapons and replica guns.

    Mr Letwin accused the Government of responding to a massive increase in gun crime and robbery with a series of gimmicks and initiatives and confused signals on sentences for burglary.

    He said the increase in firearms was drug related. "The problem won't be solved until the gangs are broken up and the streets reclaimed for the honest citizen by proper neighbourhood policing." Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative leader, said the growth of a gangs and guns culture had left some inner city areas almost "lawless".

    Norman Brennan, director of the Victims of Crime Trust and a serving policeman, said gun crime was now out of control. He said: "Never have officers been so powerless to combat crime. We have been shackled by political correctness, red tape and bureaucracy and act more like secretaries or social workers."



    The article which has multiple referenced links there in can be found at; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../10/ngun10.xml

    - Janq

    Personal Note: This is just stunning!
    Not even during the bad old days of DC in the 80s with crack were there 30 gun crime victims per day averaged. That is just alot of damn crime.
    Further what the hell is going on, England banned guns in 1996 (!).
    Sarah Brady...how are you and your ilk stating your 'facts' with a straight face considering the real world evidence right there in England completely counters your claims that disarming law abiding people will result in reduced crime!?!
    Last edited by Janq; June 12th, 2007 at 02:42 AM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Gun crime on the rise (Manchester, UK)

    As reported on 5/25/07 by The Manchester Evening News (UK):

    Gun crime on the rise
    Exclusive by John Scheerhout and Mike Slingsby
    25/ 5/2007

    SPIRALLING gun crime is blighting Greater Manchester with more than 3,000 firearms incidents in the last 15 months, the MEN can reveal today.


    SEVERE: Gun crime

    This startling figure equates to SEVEN gun-related incidents EVERY day.

    And actual shootings, not including crimes where guns were not fired, increased nine per cent in the last 12 months alone, with 120 confirmed discharges.

    Officers who compiled the figures say the blight being caused by gun crime is "severe", saying children as young as ten are joining south Manchester's notorious gangs.

    They say splinter groups imitating gangs from Los Angeles have formed out of Manchester's infamous Doddington and Gooch gangs, with the Old Trafford Cripz consisting of ex-Gooch gangsters and the Moss Side Bloods being made up of former Doddington gang members.

    The evidence of spiralling gun and gang culture - revealed by the M.E.N. today - emerged in one of three disturbing gun cases which all concluded on Wednesday with NINE young gunmen being sent to jail.

    Det Supt Darren Shenton, in charge of GMP's XCalibre task force which tackles gun and gang culture, insisted the number of gun crimes had fallen dramatically overall during the last five years despite the recent increase in shootings.

    He told the M.E.N. that the force, backed up by fed-up communities, was taking the fight to the gunmen particularly in the Trafford and the Metropolitan police divisions in south Manchester which includes Moss Side, Longsight and Fallowfield, where most gun crime happens.

    Incidents

    He said: "In terms of firearms incidents, a lot of them involve air weapons and BB guns and are not associated with what I would call hard-core gang activity.

    A significant number of those discharges have occurred in two police divisions in south Manchester. The prosecutions and convictions you have seen over the last couple of days are clearly the result of some strong investigative work but also the involvement of members of the community who are standing up against gun crime and gang culture. There's a significant amount of work going on across those two divisions recovering firearms, recovering ammunition and reducing the opportunities for people to be victims of crime.

    "This is something the police are not going to crack themselves. These recent cases show how those who involved with guns are continuing to be targeted by the police and will be for some time to come."

    He admitted the gang members were getting "younger and younger" but that those at the age of ten were -on the "periphery" of gangs and weren't "running around with machine guns".

    He described some of the youngsters involved in gangs as "just kids", adding: "They almost coming into the category of youths causing annoyance - but they are carrying 9mm weapons."

    Yesterday's M.E.N. told how ruthless gangsters who posed in photos with guns they used to intimidate and threaten kidnap victims were jailed.

    Calling themselves the Fallowfield Mandem, thought to be a splinter group of Manchester's notorious Doddington gang, three of the men were handed indeterminate sentences for the protection of the public. Two others have been jailed for their part in kidnappings which took place in February last year.

    Marvin Berkeley, 22, of Kirkham Street, Salford; Kane Snowdon, 19, of Harold Avenue, Gorton and Marcus Smith, 29, of Lostock Avenue, Levenshulme were given indeterminate sentences for the public's protection. Tyrone Patrick, 21, of Norley Avenue, Stretford was sentenced to seven years and Michael Berkeley, 22, of Seymour Grove, Old Trafford was sentenced to two years and four months. All had pleaded guilty to offences including kidnap, conspiracy to rob and assisting an offender.

    Destroyed

    In the second case, mother-of-two Amanda Hibbert told how her family had been "destroyed" when her fiancée was gunned down as she and her children cowered in terror in their home.

    In the third case, a young gunman shot a teenager who had sent a text message to his girlfriend. Neville Paul lured the 17-year-old victim to Longford Park in Stretford one night last December. Paul, 18, of Buttermere Avenue in Warrington, will be sentenced at a later date.

    It was during the trial of Paul that the jury heard startling evidence about the scale of the gun problem afflicting Manchester.

    Insp Paul Miller said there were 3,388 gun-related crimes during the last 15 months alone , going on paint a picture of the scale of gun crime in the county. It worked out at an average of 226 offences a month, whereas in the West Midlands the figure is 171 - a force comparable to GMP.

    The article can be found at; http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...._the_rise.html

    - Janq is stunned by the numbers

    Personal Note: Three thousand three hundred eighty eight!
    That is how many people just in the area of Manchester, England who have been involved just in "gun related" crimes. That does not include rape, property theft, car theft, etc. which did not have a gun involved. An average of as stated above two hundred twenty six offenses per month! There are only 30 days on average in a given month. That is a hell of alot of crime.
    What the hell?!...England banned guns in 1996, that was 11 yrs. ago!
    Guess who has the guns. Hint: It's not the citizenry.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    I'm an ex-English US citizen - I still read the British news online.

    The most amazing story I have read recently is that British schools are banning pencil sharpeners as kids are stamping on them, taking the blade and attacking each other.

    Not all of them, but some Brits are like seriously devolved cavemen, with a side order of 'weapon adaptive skills'... they'll ban spoons next.
    They'll get my spoon when they can pry my warm, sticky fingers off the handle.
    Spoons don't eat pudding -- people eat pudding.
    When spoons are outlawed, only outlaws will eat pudding.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    And when you can't have spoons, but crime still occurs, they'll turn their attention to the little wooden peanut-shaped things you get with Marie's Italian Ices!

  5. #35
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    These contemptible MORONS. How badly are we supposed to let them screw up the mentality of society, and the laws of society, before we stop them and say they've been wrong all along, and it was IDIOTIC to go after the weapons people use but ignore the people and mindsets that were using them?!

    Are we really going to let them continue to try to eliminate from the world anything and everything that could ever theoretically be used to harm another person?! That's just INSANITY.
    Who's "we"? It appears that you live in Florida. This issue is about Great Britain. It's their society, not ours; if they want to screw it up, that's their right.

    Meanwhile, we should use their downfall as a lesson in how not to run a society.

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    Who's "we"? It appears that you live in Florida. This issue is about Great Britain. It's their society, not ours; if they want to screw it up, that's their right.

    Meanwhile, we should use their downfall as a lesson in how not to run a society.
    There are plenty who point to the grand success of the U.K., Australia and other places to further their views of how such restrictions could have similar success if only such things were done here. That's the insidious effect of it and, as such, it affects everyone. The isolated "we" ain't what it used to be.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    There are plenty who point to the grand success of the U.K., Australia and other places to further their views of how such restrictions could have similar success if only such things were done here. That's the insidious effect of it and, as such, it affects everyone. The isolated "we" ain't what it used to be.
    Grand success? What success? Last time I checked, the crime rates in those countries was much higher than it is here in the USA. Of course, the anti-gunners will always scream about "gun crime", and conveniently ignore all the rapes and murders committed with knives, baseball bats, or just bare hands or multiple attackers (a small woman doesn't have much chance against a gang of men). When you look at crime overall (namely violent crime, typically street crime), you're much more likely to be a victim walking around in London or Sydney than you are in a typical American mid-size city. (Before someone calls apples-and-oranges, look at a street map of England; the whole country is a giant suburb of London, they don't have small cities, small towns, rural areas, mid-size cities, like we do. Similarly, in Australia, most of the population lives in a few cities. Not that much of the US population lives in NYC or LA.)

    Therefore, it's up to the gun supporters to point this out. We certainly have a duty to stand up for ourselves, and point out our version of the truth, so that people don't try to force such idiocy on us where we live. But that doesn't mean we should be flying over to the UK and telling them how to run their country.

  8. #38
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    look at a street map of England; the whole country is a giant suburb of London, they don't have small cities, small towns, rural areas, mid-size cities, like we do.
    Far from true, they have a higher incidence of conurbation and level of population density but it is far from a paved over island.
    I lived in London, 20 miles in any direction from Hyde Park and you are outside the M25 Orbital and in green fields with small towns and villages.
    I also lived in Devon, more sheep than people.

    The population density is the main difference.
    London and Nashville, TN are approximately the same size in square miles. Nashville has a population of <1 million, London is >10 million. You don't get acre lots in London.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    Far from true, they have a higher incidence of conurbation and level of population density but it is far from a paved over island.
    I lived in London, 20 miles in any direction from Hyde Park and you are outside the M25 Orbital and in green fields with small towns and villages.
    This may be a difference in perspective. Keep in mind that dwolsten is posting from Chandler, AZ. Out here in the west, "green fields" means a semi-developed area. Truly rural areas are either free range grazing or complete wilderness. "Small towns and villages" are 20 miles apart (and that would be considered fairly closely spaced). I've never been to the U.K., but compared to Arizona, 'rural' areas of New England or Illinois seem pretty heavily developed to me.

    Gotta love these wide open spaces.

  10. #40
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    This may be a difference in perspective. Keep in mind that dwolsten is posting from Chandler, AZ.
    Agreed, I looked at his location before responding.
    But England/Britain isn't a 'giant suburb of London' and that was what I was correcting.

    They have gaps between the clumps of idiots, and in those gaps they don't allow development. It's called the 'greenbelt' and it's legislated that old farmland or forest cannot be developed upon. Which makes the population even denser in the towns and cities, and makes home prices go through the roof as there are more people than houses.

  11. #41
    Member Array FknRa's Avatar
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    these discussions always make me chuckle (in that desperate what the heck were they thinking would happen kinda way).

    When everything sharp and heavy has been banned, we will do as inmates to and make shiv's and other weapons out of toilet and news paper.
    To those that paid for my freedom,
    I WILL NEVER FORGET.

    As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.

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