Great Britain has a gun problem!

Great Britain has a gun problem!

This is a discussion on Great Britain has a gun problem! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; We all know that the rights of gun owners in Britain are a tad more restricted than we enjoy here. After Sony used some CGI ...

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Thread: Great Britain has a gun problem!

  1. #1
    Member Array mtnfreak's Avatar
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    Great Britain has a gun problem!

    We all know that the rights of gun owners in Britain are a tad more restricted than we enjoy here. After Sony used some CGI showing Manchester Cathedral as the scene of a battle in the PS3 game 'Resistance: Fall of Man' the Church of England got a little upset. Upset enough to point out that Britain's gun laws aren't working:
    The bishop of Manchester, the Rt. Rev. Nigel McCulloch, said: "It is well known that Manchester has a gun crime problem. For a global manufacturer to recreate one of our great cathedrals with photorealistic quality and then encourage people to have gunbattles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible."

    {From: Church of England Calls Sony Game 'Sick'
    By THOMAS WAGNER (Associated Press Writer)
    From Associated Press
    June 09, 2007 6:18 AM EDT }
    Law without force is impotent.
    Blaise Pascal


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    So England's gun laws aren't working? Manchester has a gun crime problem? Imagine that.

    While setting the game in the Cathedral may have been in poor taste, it is not the cause of their little problem.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    I'm an ex-English US citizen - I still read the British news online.

    The most amazing story I have read recently is that British schools are banning pencil sharpeners as kids are stamping on them, taking the blade and attacking each other.

    Not all of them, but some Brits are like seriously devolved cavemen, with a side order of 'weapon adaptive skills'... they'll ban spoons next.

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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Wonder what they have to say about this one:

    Banned XBox 360 Commercial
    The Gunsite Blog
    ITFT / Quick Kill Review
    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

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    I'm an ex-English US citizen -
    And here's another! Talking with an old (shooting) buddy over there recently he was remarking on how prolific were the shooting incidents - Manchester was high on the list IIRC.

    As for ''weapon ingenuity'' - that will never stop - anywhere ...... if jailbirds can make shanks then about anything is ''weaponable"! I am wondering sometimes why there has not been a rash of screwdriver or chisel stabbings, I mean, these are freely available (for now).

    Penalize the perpetrator not the weapon. But I guess the bans will continue until yeah - maybe silverware will be mandated all plastic, like on airlines!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    JD
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    Great Britain has a gun problem!

    Say it aint so!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    I'm an ex-English US citizen - I still read the British news online.

    The most amazing story I have read recently is that British schools are banning pencil sharpeners as kids are stamping on them, taking the blade and attacking each other.

    Not all of them, but some Brits are like seriously devolved cavemen, with a side order of 'weapon adaptive skills'... they'll ban spoons next.
    Or the ever deadly spork...

    I'll tell you what, I still like to veg out to a first person shooter video game every now and then. HALO is one of my favorites, but I'm don't want to go shoot up an alien planet, well maybe I do...take that you blue blooded freaks!

    This is just one more case of people blaming inanimate objects for bad parenting and crime in general.

  7. #7
    Member Array Cocolo's Avatar
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    It is human nature to be adaptive and resourceful. If a firearm is not readily available any other tool will sufice. By the way spoons as "shanks" are allready in use in the "pen".

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    ...As for ''weapon ingenuity'' - that will never stop - anywhere ...... if jailbirds can make shanks then about anything is ''weaponable"! I am wondering sometimes why there has not been a rash of screwdriver or chisel stabbings, I mean, these are freely available (for now).

    Penalize the perpetrator not the weapon. But I guess the bans will continue until yeah - maybe silverware will be mandated all plastic, like on airlines!
    P95C,

    I''d posted the following at another forum in a similar focus thread that was toward removing all firearms from civilizations period. Like a magic sweep of the hand all guns just up and disappear into a huge govt. armory or some such.
    Below was my response to as much...

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq a couple of weeks ago at another forum

    There are already entire civilizations where guns and weapons of any sort are completely banned with _zero_ exception even for police. Amongst that drugs, alcohol, physical contact, and sex are disallowed as well.
    It's called prison...


    As featured at Weaponsblog.com:

    ...Some of the inventions by the prisoners are mentioned below.

    1) Zip Gun:



    This is a 4-barrel zip gun that is kept in the Kingston Penitentiary Library. You will not find a trigger in the image but it was crafter carefully from an overshoe.

    2) GUN:



    This is a fake gun that is made from wood and then is painted. May be it was made to scare a sheriff.

    3) SHIV:



    This super sharp shiv was found at a blacksmith’s shop at William Head Institution. That looks real sharp to me…!

    4) TATTOO GUN:



    Well prisoners also had to show some of the skills crafted on their body. For this they made this amazing tattoo gun. This too was developed by some inventor in Kingston Area Institution.

    Below is an image of the best invention according to me. This is a water cigarette that was carefully made from a old razor. This used salt-water solution to increase the resistance of the device so that it does not blow up when electricity is passed through it.




    Source - http://www.weaponsblog.org/entry/som...son-inventions
    Folks might want to take a peek at the source page where even more info including video of how to make crap can be found.
    It's no secret to anyone or law enforcement that prisons in every country everywhere are the most dangerous of places on this earth to be, aside from maybe South Africa. Yet how can that be?! There are no guns allowed. No drugs allowed. No sex allowed. No nothing allowed...but breathing, eating, peeing, reading, and pooping. Existing.
    Prison should be crazy safe...
    ...and yet they are not.
    I'm totally not surprised at the results for England or kids scavenging pencil sharpeners for make shift weaponry, Lord of the Flies style.

    - Janq as a youth was stabbed in the lower back during a street fight with a sharpened #2 pencil
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    As reported by BBC News:

    Pencil sharpeners banned from schools to prevent pupils 'slashing' each other

    Last updated at 19:51pm on 8th June 2007

    A leading pencil sharpener manufacturer is planning to fit tamper-proof blades to its products after slashing incidents sparked safety fears in schools.

    Following continuing controversy about knives and guns in the classroom, schools are turning their attention to another potential weapon - pencil sharpeners.

    According to the Times Educational Supplement, schools have complained of incidents where children unscrewed small blades and used them to slash others or themselves.

    Although such cases a rare, a stationery company says that it had received sufficient complaints to make it redesign all of its sharpeners.

    Maufacturer Helix says it hopes to ease teachers' nerves by bringing out a "tamper-proof" sharpener, featuring a special screw head that it claims cannot be removed, even with a screwdriver.

    Some schools have been forced to ban pencil sharpeners altogether, although teachers' unions have played down the problem.

    One of the most shocking cases took place last year, when teenager Shanni Naylor had 30 stitches in her face after being slashed with a pencil sharpener blade by another girl at school.

    The 12-year-old had gone to the aid of a boy who was being bullied at Myrtle Springs school in Sheffield.

    Normanton junior school in Derby banned plastic sharpeners after children were found stamping on them to remove the blades and Waterloo primary in Ashton-under-Lyne banned sharpeners after a pupil slashed another child's neck.

    Jon Burke, a spokesman for Helix, which sells two million sharpeners a year, told the Times Educational Supplement: "We had a lot of feedback from teachers and parents that this was a problem and developed the patented screw."

    Helix was previously responsible for launching the shatterproof ruler and the "safety point" compass during the 1980s. The sharp point disappears into the device if pushed into something with force.

    Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT teachers' union, said craft knives taken from design workshops were a bigger threat.

    "Anything can potentially become an offensive weapon," she said, "and teachers and schools are more and more aware of the risks of pupils misusing equipment. In some ways, if you produce a tamper-proof pencil sharpener you lay down a challenge to the pupils."

    Jan Fry, deputy chief executive of parents' group Parentline Plus, said improving sharpeners did not tackle overall issues of bullying. "If it isn't a pencil sharpener, it will be something else," she said.

    Laura Warren, of the National Confederation for Parent Teacher Associations, said: "Parents will welcome anything making children's time at school safer."

    New laws came into effect last week giving teachers a clearer right to frisk pupils for weapons.

    The article can be found at; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
    As well the Professional Association of Teachers in England say they need gun & stab proof body armor even as guns and knives are prohibited items (?)...

    Teachers want body armour to carry out gun searches

    Last updated at 00:03am on 26th May 2007

    Teachers are demanding to be equipped with stab and bullet-proof vests to protect them from being attacked as they frisk pupils for knives and guns.

    Laws coming into effect next week allow staff to conduct forcible searches of students suspected of carrying weapons.

    But teachers are saying they should not be made to carry out searches unless they are provided with body armour.

    More than 220 staff were seriously injured in pupil attacks last year, a rise of 21 per cent since 2002.


    Have we really reached the point of our teachers wearing armour?

    "In the staffroom of Sunny Haven primary school, where staff are sitting down having a cup of tea, this idea would probably make them laugh," said David Brierley, solicitor for the Professional Association of Teachers.

    "But in other schools there may be enormous relief at the idea.

    "On the list of possible control measures for schools, we think protective jackets should be on the list."

    Mr Brierley said heads should consider buying several of the vests, which typically cost a few hundred pounds.

    The union is calling on ministers to include a requirement to supply body armour in guidance on exercising the new powers, which is due to be published shortly. It is expected to say staff should receive training, costing around 50 per teacher, in how to 'pat down' clothing and check pockets for knives, blades and other weapons.

    Under the Violent Crime Reduction Act, heads will not need parental consent to search pupils and can authorise other members of staff to exercise the powers.

    Teachers will be able to frisk any pupil merely on the suspicion they are armed.

    Reasonable grounds to initiate searches include suspicions they are members of a gang which habitually carries weapons and 'wears a distinctive item of clothing or other means of identification.

    Meanwhile, airport-style screening using scanning wands or bleeping arches can be used on pupils at random, even if staff harbour no specific suspicions.

    The powers are being introduced at a time of mounting public anxiety over shootings and stabbings of children.

    Luke Walmsley was stabbed to death at school in Lincolnshire in 2003 while Kiyan Prince was knifed yards from his school gates in North London last year.

    A recent wave of knife and gun crime involving teenagers in London has intensified concern.

    Last year, a mother sent her 16-year-old son to school in East London in a stab-proof vest because he feared for his safety.

    The shopkeeper who sold the teenager the vest said he was selling three a week to children. Jan Myles, assistant secretary of the National Association of Head Teachers, said: "This is a high-risk strategy which could have dangerous or fatal consequences." "Schools Minister Lord Adonis said incidents involving knives were rare but the Government wanted a zerotolerance approach.

    "That's why we are giving head teachers these tough new powers to search for weapons," he said.

    "We think parents will welcome the clear message that bringing a knife into schools will not be tolerated."

    The article can be found at; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The bishop of Manchester, the Rt. Rev. Nigel McCulloch, said: "For a global manufacturer to recreate one of our great cathedrals with photorealistic quality and then encourage people to have gunbattles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible."
    The reality is, the downfall of humans in his immediate region will almost certainly involve incursions into his beloved church, whether he likes it or not. He should look at the bright side: he's now relatively aware, though its by virtue of anger at a manufacturer, not realization that criminals could easily do what he witnessed. May he awaken before others do it for him, at the expense of his flock.

    It would be funny, if it weren't for the fact that the same long, horrific slide to irrationality and surrealism is happening here in the USA.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    So tell me again why we 'saved' Great Britton in the 1940's.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  12. #12
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    So tell me again why we 'saved' Great Britton in the 1940's.
    Because we talk funny, and your women love that...

    Sorry, couldn't resist that.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    ...I am wondering sometimes why there has not been a rash of screwdriver or chisel stabbings, I mean, these are freely available (for now).

    Penalize the perpetrator not the weapon...
    Being somewhat curious I ran a Google news search to see if such a thing were ongoing in the UK and by golly crimes by persons/criminals using everyday household implements are not outside the norm there.

    One particularly unfortunate example can be found below, again occuring at a schoolyard...

    UK Schoolboy hurt in hammer attack

    Last Modified: 12 Jan 2007
    By: Sue Turton

    Police are questioning eight men after a schoolboy was beaten with a hammer in a playground attack.

    Angry parents confronted a head-teacher in Swindon this morning claiming racism was rife in a school where a pupil was attacked with a hammer.

    A fifteen-year-old white boy was left lying in a pool of blood after he was set upon yesterday afternoon by a gang who are believed to be Asian.

    After the attack, which was witnessed by up to a hundred schoolchildren, eight youths were arrested by police and are still being questioned. The victim, who has not been named suffered head injuries but is now in a stable condition in hospital.

    The article can be found at; http://www.channel4.com/news/article...+attack/187210
    BTW I found in a subsequent search on the title of this article that this is not the first of such incident to occur with use of a hammer nor by a student nor on schoolgrounds in the UK (!).

    Youth charged over hammer attack
    Wednesday, 17 October, 2001, 14:16 GMT 15:16 UK
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1602761.stm

    Police blamed for race clashes
    Monday, 25 June, 2001, 00:23 GMT 01:23 UK
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1406010.stm
    "...Police have been blamed by community leaders after violent clashes involving groups of Asian youths in a Lancashire town. Officers in Burnley are accused of reacting too slowly after a gang of white men allegedly launched a hammer attack on an Asian taxi driver early on Saturday..."

    Hammer attack on ex's new man
    Published Date: 09 June 2007
    Location: Hartlepool
    http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news?articleid=2942138
    "A MAN stormed into his estranged wife's bedroom where he subjected her new partner - his former best friend - to an "horrendous" hammer attack..."

    Man arrested over hammer attack in Englefield Green
    Submitted: 15/12/2005 13:26:01
    http://www.surrey.police.uk/news_item.asp?artid=6528

    Hammer attack in gang battle
    Worcestershire | Archive | 2003 | January | 21
    http://archive.thisisworcestershire....21/229562.html

    There are lots more and that's just toward criminals using hammers.
    I'll bet my keyboard that screwdrivers and other 'tools' are regularly being used as well in lieu of guns & knives in the UK.

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; June 11th, 2007 at 02:10 AM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Of Course!

    Of course the UK has a gun problem.

    Only the criminals have them.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsbane View Post
    Of course the UK has a gun problem.

    Only the criminals have them.
    Good comment.

    There's a lot of countries out there with the same problem.

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