Great News !! BATFE says we can now legally own shoe strings (sometimes)

Great News !! BATFE says we can now legally own shoe strings (sometimes)

This is a discussion on Great News !! BATFE says we can now legally own shoe strings (sometimes) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well atf has spontaneously reversed its self on the " shoe string Machinegun " . I will try and provide a bit of background for ...

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,134

    Great News !! BATFE says we can now legally own shoe strings (sometimes)

    Well atf has spontaneously reversed its self on the " shoe string Machinegun " .

    I will try and provide a bit of background for those new to the world of firearms as well as those who just who just have not heard of this .

    Some time back ( around 94 or so someone sent a shoestring to the ATF with a set of instructions and requested the legal status of said string .



    As a shortcut the above pic illustrates the string and instructions well .. My understanding is that this particular pic is of an actual registered genuine shoe string machinegun ... the little metal tab in the middle has the serial no on it oO( yes some folks have both too much time and too much money considering its a $200 tax on that string) .

    Anyway here is a 2004 letter re confirming the earlier stance that a shoe string is in fact a machine gun .




    and here is a link to the pdf of the NEW finding that atf just sent out with no prompting .

    http://abcyber.org/bob/boardpics/atf...20redacted.pdf

    My source for the new letter is the horses mouth at http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=615008

    ill copy and paste most of the post there

    It seems FTB must have nothing better to do these days than re-read everything they've written over the last decade or so and decide what parts don't fit into the various judicial strategies they'd like to assert.

    On September 30 of 2004 I received the ever-famous "string trick" letter declaring a shoestring to be a machinegun. That letter, while new information to many of us, was actually just a re-statement of a determination that ATF made back in July of 1996. So, until just recently, the ATF's position regarding shoestrings had been consistent for nearly 11 years (a surprising feat for ATF in my opinion).

    Well, since I heard that the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers published a copy of the letter to their membership, and since Halbrook used it to poke fun at 'em at an industry meeting, and since it's been used in numerous court cases with a variety of beneficial effects (in my opinion), I guess ATF got tired of it and decided it was time to re-write it.

    Spontaneously (in other words, without any inquiry by me or anybody else that I am aware of) ATF sent me a new letter, overruling their now-nearly-3-years-old letter (link below).

    I'm not completely positive exactly what ATF was trying to "fix" with their new letter, but it would seem that it actually should cause them more problems than it solves.

    Best I can tell by their new logic, a part that is designed and intended solely for the purpose of converting a semi-automatic rifle into a machinegun is now *not* a machinegun *until* it is added to a firearm. They definitely seem to read the law a lot differently than I do, but that's nothing new.
    What is interesting to me is that if i read the letter right BATFE has also abandoned the Drop In Auto Sear , Lightning Link , and or any other full auto parts previously prohibited as NFA items , unless of course they are actualy used .. It ends the whole " constructive possession " prosecution stratagy . Now dont run out and procure crap for your ar 15 conversion lol , but the letter does make me think and i am sure will lead to some interesting arguements in courtrooms around the country .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array raysheen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Maine, USA
    Posts
    793
    Thanks for posting...very interesting update!

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,134
    I just realised i did not post full credits .

    The mini 14 pic and the heads up on the new letter goes to a blog located here http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/20...versed_itself/

    I was aware of the finding by atf long ago , but kudos to sasyuncle for the update .

    BTW if you follow the link i posted also go to the homepage and read the blog , you might want to put it on your daily surf list .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array raysheen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Maine, USA
    Posts
    793
    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    What is interesting to me is that if i read the letter right BATFE has also abandoned the Drop In Auto Sear , Lightning Link , and or any other full auto parts previously prohibited as NFA items , unless of course they are actualy used .. It ends the whole " constructive possession " prosecution stratagy .
    I'm not reading it the same way as you are...the letter specifically addresses a shoelace with loops in it...I imagine if you wrote a specific letter asking about DIAS/LL then they would still stick with the constructive possiession nonsense. There is no reading between the lines with BATF in my opinion. I say that this letter will cause much more confusion than it was meant to.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,134
    IMHO and IANAL being understood ... The salent points of the letter deal with the fact they do not consider a part that converts a semi to a full unless and untill it is installed on said semi . Tho they only address the string here ... they set a precedent for other ' pieces parts ' by this . They just opened a bigger can of worms than the string ever could have been . IMHO the whole " constructive possession " case just went out the window ... as long as its not assembled it can be beat , and beat using BATFE's own documentation to call the entire agencys credibility into question .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    IMHO and IANAL being understood ... The salent points of the letter deal with the fact they do not consider a part that converts a semi to a full unless and untill it is installed on said semi . Tho they only address the string here ... they set a precedent for other ' pieces parts ' by this . They just opened a bigger can of worms than the string ever could have been . IMHO the whole " constructive possession " case just went out the window ... as long as its not assembled it can be beat , and beat using BATFE's own documentation to call the entire agencys credibility into question .
    That's what the letter is about. No revision on possession/assembly, and no new precedent. If you can credibly fasten your shoes with a DIAS, and produce 40 million pairs of said shoes with said fasteners per annum, you might have something to go on... There is no credible antecedent use for a DIAS.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,134
    Robb i respect you and your input .. with that being said tho i am not a trial lawyer , i do honestly feel that this revision ( no matter how sillly they looked declaring a string as a machine gun ... they would have been better off NOT fixing it by sending out a new finding . Worded the way the letter is , it calls into question any parts which could be used untill installed . Back when it was pretty simple for us gunowners , if you own a semi auto, and own things that can make it " auto bumpfire " then you own an untaxed nfa . This letter throws out at least 11 years of precident . Only time will tell just what it " enumerates " in guns and parts ... that is why i said both dont go get full auto crap ... and lets watch it closely .

    Edited to add : we will never know how the prospective of the dc gun ownership case that may hit the SCOUS had any effect on this ruling ... or re ruling as the case may be ... however imho it does offer a glimpse in how the BATFE sees the supremes ruling , just due to timing
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    722
    whoever came up with that at first is a very creative individual =O)

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,290
    It doesn't matter...they're argument has been bs all along anyway. They're going to screw us any which way they can. The trigger still gets pulled once for each shot fired. As the action cycles forward after each shot it pulls the string and since it's wrapped around the trigger and trigger guard and your finger is holding the other end, it squeezes the trigger, shot fires, action cycles, repeat... So even by their own definitions it never meets the machine gun criteria.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Great News
    By caubry89 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: August 13th, 2010, 08:10 PM
  2. a bit of great news
    By cole4570 in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: April 19th, 2008, 07:47 AM
  3. Great News!
    By luvmy40 in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: June 13th, 2007, 03:38 PM
  4. Seems great news for Omaha
    By P95Carry in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: August 10th, 2006, 03:41 PM

Search tags for this page

full auto string trick

,

mini 14 auto sear

,

mini 14 drop in sear

,
mini 14 full auto shoestring
,

mini 14 full auto string

,
mini 14 shoelace trick
,
mini 14 shoestring
,
old string trick on mini-14's
,
shoe string mini14
,

shoestring trick full auto

,
string trick auto rifle
,
string trick for full auto
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors