May 14th, 2005 07:56 PM
May 15th, 2005 02:46 AM
The Commandment is translated as 'not to murder.'
The problem is that Christ considered 'hate' to be as severe as murder. Actually, the case is that 'he who breaks one, breaks them all.'
Self defense does not appear to be against Biblical teaching. Once again, it is the 'word of God' is to be viewed as important.
For example, when Moses was alive, God showed him an area that was to be cleansed of Phillistines so tha God's people could settle on that land. They were also admonished not to breed with the local women as it would water down their teaching.
After the death of Moses, Joshua led the tribe, and they failed to meet God's timetable for cleansing the land. And they were mingling with the women.
In a strange act, God rebuked Joshua for not killing fast enough.
This was Joshua's message from God, just as death for sin was onto Christ. In fact, Christ asks God three times to take the job away.
To my way of thinking, it is clear that there is a metal sword in the hand of Joshua, but a purpose for Christ, and clearly not as a rabble rouser.
May 15th, 2005 02:56 PM
One of my "HOLY MEN" once said ----"praise the lord and pass the ammunition"------People that refuse to protect themselves FOR WHATEVER REASON had better not be waitin' for me to protect you----it aint gonna happen !! My God don't want me to protect you !!
May 15th, 2005 06:13 PM
proclaim ye this amoung the gentiles; prepare war wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, I am strong I thought I would throw these verses in. I know on the "united nations" building they have the verse in the bible saying "beat your swords into plowshares and your spears into pruning hooks" It is meant to be how it will be when Christ returnes to this world at the end of the "end times" and he truly brings peace; but, the "united nations" wants to build a worldly empire without GOD any how ................... beat my plowshare into an ak-47 & my pruning hooks into a custom harley davidson!!!!
Last edited by christn waryr; May 15th, 2005 at 06:29 PM.
May 15th, 2005 07:45 PM
I was going to ask for a Valmet, the thinking man's assault rifle. My bike is sort of custom, the bulk of the money is in the engine.
beat my plowshare into an ak-47 & my pruning hooks into a custom harley davidson!!!!
In the after life, I'm going to ask for a little out of the way planet with beautiful scenery and brand new seamless six lane highways that go everywhere. I intend to take my little Bichon, Sasha, who at this end of times can talk.
My bike won't be as flashy as some Seraphs might have, again the grace is in the engine.
But if you put a 127-inch S&S EFI engine into a Dyna made completely of titanium and scandium, the beast ought to really scoot!
Oh, and I'll be slimmer there, so there's a few more pounds.
May 15th, 2005 08:57 PM
If I didn't have a Bible I would sell my gun and buy one. Fortunately, I have a Bible.
Originally Posted by The Tourist
May 16th, 2005 11:26 AM
I believe we are responsible for ourselves. I'm agnostic, so God may or may not exist. I believe that if God does exist, that we are still responsible for ourselves and nothing is predetermined.
I've often heard in reply to why a person died, "Because God loved that person so much he wanted he/she by his side." This is when I truly believe that if God exists, he did not have a hand in such a thing, because if God is supposed to be a benevolent being, he would not be so selfish as to rip away (as an example) the mother or father of six young children.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
May 16th, 2005 11:40 AM
You do what we all do, and that is pray for understanding.
All prayers are answered, sometimes the answer is "no." As I look over my life, some of the most heart-wrenching problems were left to play out. Of course, a few decades later I saw why things had to evolve that way, and I was glad they did.
There is a Biblical passage that says (if memory serves), "Would a Father give rock to eat or his son a stone?"
All things are working themselves out. Whenever I feel like I'm going to break I think of the passage, "He who he loveth, he burnish."
If you've ever worked a piece of copper for a litho print or smelted a crucible of lead and tin you'll know that the purification process takes a lot of heat, pain and elbow grease.
But then, you hold a sheet of flawless copper to begin an art project, or at day's end you have a bucket of perfect bullets.
I have really screwed up in my life. I still struggle with sins, forgiveness and healing for events over 20 years ago. I'm comforted by the fact that God's ability to forgive exceeds my ability to sin.
And now for the humor, at least you'll be standing on glass and not sulphur.
There's a titanium Harley out there, somewhere.
May 16th, 2005 11:41 AM
"God made Man............Sam Colt made them equal"
Catholic here, but I believe God protects all of us, except when you're given his guidence to protect yourself or innocents. Then God gives you the fortitude and strength to do what is needed to get through that dreadful situation, should it arise.
May 17th, 2005 02:58 PM
I think the gods help those who help themselves and who take responsibility for their own lives. If we, in carrying, have acted responsibly, then we have done our utmost to resolve matters by peaceful (and non-lethal) means, drawing arms only as a last resort. This seems to follow all but the pacifist teachings, and a pacifist wouldn't carry.
May 17th, 2005 08:07 PM
I believe the word and the concept has been maligned, by our own people.
a pacifist wouldn't carry.
I'm a pacifist. I believe in it, I repeat it, I strive to get younger people (who are always in our care) to view it in a positive light.
The chest-thumpers have stolen the issue from us, in the worst way. They claim to seek peace, about like Caine did in Kung Fu. That is, mouth a bunch of good feelings and then beat everyone else to jelly. I don't even know what kind of a twisted man that is, really.
Our soldiers are pacifists. They do not seek to murder the enemy, or collect ears and fingers as war trophies. They wouldn't even be there if there wasn't aggression in the world.
Is a policeman a ninja? No, of course not. He's a 'peace officer.' He's a sworn professional upholding the laws that protect your family.
Do I have a gun? Yes, many. And many of them are anti-personnel weapons. But I'm not a ninja, part of the Aryan Brotherhood, a survivalist or a member of some goofy flying katana round table.
I'm a pacifist. I'm a husband. I'm a citizen. Don't let the wolves steal this issue by playing to your ego and wrapping militarism in sheep's clothing. They like to fight. In the end, that's all they know how to do.
May 17th, 2005 08:52 PM
I don't carry any religious labels...put a lot of faith in science though....believe basically that humankind is born bad and for the most part, work real hard to be good. Life throws a lotta curves along the way, and unfortunately not all follow a "good" path....that's okay though, if "they" cross mine, I'm ready.
"Endeavor To Persevere"
Chief Dan George
May 18th, 2005 11:33 AM
That may or may not be. I meant nothing derogatory or disrespectful to those who embrace pacifism, in my remarks. I was referring to true pacifists - those who refuse to carry or use weapons and who embrace a doctrine of non-resistance. By your own description, I would not consider you a pacifist, though you may be a man of peace.
Originally Posted by The Tourist
May 18th, 2005 12:04 PM
Excellent general distinction Tom - I too am very much a man of peace but sure as heck no ''pacifist'' - I think that term nicely sums up the ''never hurt anyone anywhere any time'' crowd - even if they are being attacked!!
I would not consider you a pacifist, though you may be a man of peace.
Bit like also - I personally make a big distinction between ''racist'' and racialist'' - they are very separate terms IMO.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
May 18th, 2005 12:17 PM
Your comments prove my point about this issue being 'maligned.' And with it, fine men wince at the idea of being labeled being a pacifist, as they would at being labeled a pansy. And we ought to stand firm against the paper tigers who claim otherwise.
Several 'consciencious objectors' served in WWII and were decorated for bravery.
Imagine that, a 'pacifist,' serving as a medic, crawling through shrapnel and live fire to save a wounded man whose ideals were the opposite of his.
People now use the term as a negative epithet. Or as a boost to their sagging ego. Do you know why I came to CCW? It's because I believe the underlying ideal here is safety and security--first and foremost, without the crap. And it should be.
I have gotten to the age where I can stand firmly behind unpopular speech, if that speech represents ideals that are quickly eroded by 'chest thumpers.'
In one of his books, Elmer Keith wrote that there was a spent bullet lodged into every porch on his block. In other words, there was lots of gun play in his neighborhood.
Some would say, "Well, if the bangers want trouble, let's give it to them!" Is that what you want? The neighborhood where your kids play? When does safety and security stop, and blood-letting begin?
And worse of all, I have to listen to the war stories I know aren't true. I never saw karate or a similar discipline win a fight, nor have I ever seen a real West Side Story knife fight. And I'll tell you something about how ridiculous the claims of my detractors agruments really are.
During that period of five years, most bikers wore Buck 110's, so did most construction workers and sportsmen. On any given night, there were 20 bikers and about as many townies in the saloon--more on the weekends. That meant that there were always 30 to 50 Buck knives at-the-ready for scores of drunken, young, testosterone filled macho types.
Not one knife fight, ever.
And yet, even when you prove and demonstrate that all of this pandering stems from a vivid imagination, they do the fall-back argument of "well, it might happen."
I don't want that behavior in the neighborhood in which wife travels. I don't think the chest-thumpers have the faintest idea of what their bragging and posturing ultimately brings. And I know for a fact that they can't fight.
I don't want to see anyone here hurt. And if a 'fighting guru' pops his head up and tells you he will bring peace by fighting, call him on it. He's a liar. They spend more time sharpening their swords than their prose.
We get peace by working toward it. Period. That used to be a valued concept. Remember George Washington, "first in war, first in peace."
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