Kicked out of Barnes & Noble!

This is a discussion on Kicked out of Barnes & Noble! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by semperfi.45 Wow a lot of non LEO here. Let me preface this by saying I am not anti CCW and I am ...

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Thread: Kicked out of Barnes & Noble!

  1. #16
    Member Array dogrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi.45 View Post
    Wow a lot of non LEO here. Let me preface this by saying I am not anti CCW and I am going to give a response in support of LEO here. They had a right to escort you out to discuss the matter for their safety and yours.

    From my experience, stories like this are 9 times out of 10 exaggerated. You are presenting your side, that's cool. I would be curious to hear the Officers side. I would have seriously considered arresting you for obstruction because you probably were more of an as* than you're letting on. Great job recording the Officers, more of you should do it when in a situation. It's great because you present your snippet of a conversation in a complaint and then I play my Mobilevision audio of the entire incident and show how we got up to your snippet. I have had this happen in court relating to traffic stops and the look is priceless. We (at least my agency) don't act like a**es because everything is recorded now. I am not in it to bust anyone's hump, just comply with what needs to be done within the scope of the law and let's move on. It's a shame that some LEO's are a bad example of professionalism.

    Not trying to get under anyone's skin it's just that there are two sides to every story.


    You're wrong! There's THREE sides to every story.....One, the other, and what REALLY happened.

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  3. #17
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    Good going and let me add one more thing if the occassion like that ever happens: Ask the store to do an incident report. Although they won't give you a copy outright, in any legal procedure you should want to take in the future, they have to produce the document. If the report states that the manager did not ask PD to have you removed, you have corraborating evidence dated on the day of the event.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  4. #18
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Meaning, even if discussed in a responsible fashion, that discussions about open vs. concealed are verboten?

    DefensiveCarry.com never was ShotgunApplicability.com, either, yet the suitability of shotguns in various scenarios is a legitimate are of interest and concern for folks who use firearms defensively. Not much different than the pros/cons of concealed versus other modes. To be completely honest, my read on the above-quoted snippet isn't that everything other than carrying is verboten, as implied by the above post.

    Just looking for clarification.

    Nein, nicht verbotten...

    It's not forbidden, it just has the possibility of turning into a big mess, and ends up in more work for us, editing posts, deleting posts, handing out warnings and infractions for language and personal attacks, usually one member will get banned for copping an attitude and telling one of us that we should burn in hell for not seeing his side of things (yes I've been told that all ready), and we don't want that.

    For some reason, it gets ugly (OC vs. CC) Some one will say "Your stupid if you open carry" and the reply is something like "Blow me, I'm the one who's really defending 2A, all you concealed carriers are chciken for hiding your guns"


    And that's not what this forum is about, this place is for learning and calm rational discussion, not a smutfest of insults and personal attacks.

    QK is just making it clear that this has the potential to go south quickly and is advising the members reading this thread to keep within the rules.

  5. #19
    Member Array Zigmun's Avatar
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    semperfi.45 +1

    Insightful post.

  6. #20
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    The store has every right to deem you a trespasser and evict you for just about any reason (race and some other things are exceptions).

    OTOH, you have every right to NEVER add anything to any of its cash registers again.

    And more importantly, you have the right to lobby your friends to do likewise.

    I have advocated mandatory minimum federal prison sentences for people who violate firearms rights under color of law.

    It might be a good time to propose similar legislation for private concerns, much the same way some of the civil rights laws of the 1960's made people answerable in damages for denying public accommodations to people based on race. New or more civil rights laws for guns and gun owners....
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


    Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.

  7. #21
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    Post ccw9mm

    Did I Say That?
    or did I say:

    DefensiveCarry.com is NOT (and never was) OpenCarry.com and if this turns into yet another Open VS Concealed carry debate or it gets Heated and goes into Member Attack Mode ~ it will be promptly deleted.

    IS the topic of this thread Open Carry VS Concealed Carry?

    I don't think it is.

    Feel free to start yet another endless Open VS Concealed carry debate that will ultimately travel into the forever unresolved land of:


    - I Like To Open Carry

    - I don't like to give away my Concealed Carry advantage.

    - Open Carry is legal in my state so I'll open carry if I want to.

    - Why would you carry open and give away your tactical advantage?

    - There are certain advantages to Open Carry & it's a possible deterrent and if the Bad Guy sees that I have a firearm he might not attack me in the first place.

    - Yes, but, if he sees your firearm the bad guy might just shoot you first.

    - You're opening yourself up to a gun grab if you carry Open.

    - In (pick a state) Open Carry is legal but, people don't do it.

    - If more people did then it would become more acceptable.

    - Even if I COULD carry open I would still carry concealed.


    You want me to type about 10 more sentences then you don't have to bother opening up a new Open VS Concealed thread because I'll have it all covered and rehashed for the 50th time on DefensiveCarry right here?

  8. #22
    OD*
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    +1, Jd & Qk.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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  9. #23
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    I believe you presented yourself in a "standoffish" way when you would'nt tell the officers your last name. I believe if they wanted to pursue it, they could have detained you until they found out who you were. If I have nothing to hide, I'd tell them my name....

  10. #24
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    +1 for being cool under fire. From the LEO's side, no matter if you were Jesus open carrying, a firearm on your hip during a confrontation (and it was, from the officer's perspective) exponentially raises the angst.
    ps. I started carrying a micro cassette in my car for traffic stops. Gotta figure out how to make my cell do the same.

  11. #25
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    So Officer Mucci, being LEO, can lie to a civilian and that is OK? What country are we in?

    Officer Mucci, being LEO, can threaten a law abiding civilian with "something very bad" and that is OK? What country are we in?

    In Virginia where this took place, it is legal to open carry without a carry permit. In fact, with out a permit in Virginia, the only legal way to carry is OPEN.
    It is not the Bill of Privileges. It is not the Bill of Permits. It is the Bill of Rights.

    People should not be afraid of the government; the government should be afraid of the people.

  12. #26
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi.45 View Post
    I would have seriously considered arresting you for obstruction because you probably were more of an as* than you're letting on.


    So, you would have seriously considered arresting 'unrequited' because you may have considered him being an a**? WHAT?
    What law would you say that he was breaking?

    I'm not saying he was and I seriously doubt that he was being an a** with the officers, but if everybody that acted like an a** was arrested, jails would definately be a lot fuller than they are.
    According the the story, the officers insinuated that there had been a complaint by B&N management. According to the manager that had not been the case. And just because a customer, or a parent or an anti-gunner has a problem with a law abiding citizen open carrying, that doesn't negate the legality of the action nor his right to do so.
    What is important is that this seems to be another instance of encroachment on the open carry rights of a law abiding citizen by law enforcement officers that may be overstepping their bounds of authority.
    If this is the case, it isn't the first time nor do I believe it will be the last. What needs to be done is that these instances be brought out into the open and challeged for the illegality and abuse of authority that they are. To not do so will only enable the power of anti-gunners and pro gun control lobbies in their quest to restrict law abiding citizens rights to protect themselves. That effects you and I and our families and loved ones.

    remember*********************************
    GOOD GUN CONTROL Is Being Able To Hit Your Target!

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    And I thought the Gestapo had been disbanded...
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

  14. #28
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    glad it worked out as it could have been uglier. as much a I'd like open carry to be more appreciated publicly, it's not practical in a more public than private area. i don't see why you don't just carry concealed and still protect yourself all the same... if not better.
    What's this button do?

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC View Post
    And I thought the Gestapo had been disbanded...
    +1 JimmyC! I wasn't going to go there but that was what I was thinking.
    It is not the Bill of Privileges. It is not the Bill of Permits. It is the Bill of Rights.

    People should not be afraid of the government; the government should be afraid of the people.

  16. #30
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    The way you handled it was ok but i think the LEO has a hard job. Not sure but I may have said less to gain more influence in a time when everything is very fragile in our hectic society. I don t just carry for my safety but also for the safety of others. If they don t want it No matter what I do they will reject it. Most of life is about how we react to things. Especially with a gun! Be safe

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