Terrorist Boy Scouts? (Yes Second Amendment Related)

This is a discussion on Terrorist Boy Scouts? (Yes Second Amendment Related) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I am an Eagle Scout and support scouting. The free republic dot com article seems to suggest that the sheriff's actions were to satisfy the ...

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Thread: Terrorist Boy Scouts? (Yes Second Amendment Related)

  1. #16
    Member Array movingshrub's Avatar
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    I am an Eagle Scout and support scouting. The free republic dot com article seems to suggest that the sheriff's actions were to satisfy the anti-gun crowd. This other article addressing the same situations seems to suggest that such an assertion may be untrue. Just trying to contribute to the marketplace of ideas and all.

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...619407,00.html

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  3. #17
    Member Array dhbry232's Avatar
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    Perhaps the Boy Scout camp needs to rethink it's fund-raiser activities or seek to invite neighbors to attend or assist. When reasonable people discuss a problem, reasonable agreements to resolve the problem can be reached. However, it sounds like from the articles here, that neighbors want absolutely no shooting at all. Now, did they not know the range was there when they took up residence, or is the range a newcomer? If the former, then some tolerance is required. If the latter, then some efforts to contain noise might be necessary. The sheriff may have only been doing his job as he saw it in responding to the complaints, but the first article did not color it that way. The second article hardly mentions the sheriff at all except for the Hamas comment which tells me the sheriff needs to put brain in gear before he opens his mouth to the press. Perhaps reasonable accomodations can be made for all parties involved, although, these days, too many times lawyers get involved and nothing reasonable seems to come from that.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    Gentlemen,

    IF you think this is an isolated incident. IF you believe this will not soon happen in your area. IF you believe this CRAP will stop anytime soon, you are mistaken. Now is the time, buy all your guns, stockpile all your ammo, prepare your families. The time is coming, within our lifetimes the Second Revolution will be fought.
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


    Previously known as "cjm5874"

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Boy Scouts as terrorists??? What is next? Will they go after the Girl Scouts for their cookies?? It is hard to understand the flawed reasoning of this type of person until you realize they are.......
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficient. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding."
    -- Notes from dissenting opinion in the U.S. Supreme Court case Olmstead v United States, 277 U.S. 438, 1928.


    The well-meaning sheriff needs to bone up on his history, his constitution and his duty to the People. Peaceful Valley, hm? Ironic, that.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  7. #21
    Member Array Serenity's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that Sherriff Rosco P. Coltraine here is a friend to gunowners but if you read some of the articles about this and what he actually said this is not the assault on gun rights that it is being played as in some forums.

    The Sherriff said that it "sounded like a Hammas training camp". Unfortunate choice of metaphor because it implied something that no rational person would attempt to accuse the BSA of, but in reality it was just a bit of hyperbole, ill chosen.

    The other issues, as best I can make them out, is that shoots on this scale have simply pushed the Scout camp's neighbors over the edge. Apparently, while they weren't crazy about the occasional fairly small scale shooting sessions that had previously been done, they simply decided to draw the line at an 8 hour even with several hundred shooters. Eespecially when the neighbors realized that shoots of this size and length were possibly going to become regular events.

    There is a Jewish camp that is concerned that the shooting will be an issue with Saturday morning services but in the article I read the camp is playing wait and see and is working with the BSA to find options that will work for everyone.

    The other involved in this appear to be landowners surrounding the camp that are concerned that the BSA camp is ramping up their "sporting clay" program to an extent that would have considerable effect on the neighboring property's quality of life if they are held on a regular basis.
    "Friend, I would not harm thee for all the world, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot."--Unknown Quaker

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    The Boy Scouts are evil, but the Crips, Bloods, and MS-13 are just misunderstood victims of poverty.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  9. #23
    Member Array Duncan223's Avatar
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    <R Lee Ermey voice> Well Holy Crap!!!! </R Lee Ermey voice>

    Not only did I enjoy earning my Marksmanship merit badge in Boy Scouts - I enjoyed being an instructor when I was older. To think that some asshat LEO would be against the PROPER instruction and safety of firearms to pre-teen/teen aged boys is... um....
    NRA, GOA, SAF, JFPO
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
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    OMG. i think I saw some boy scouts just the other day, I wonder what they were planning ?????

    That sheriff ought to be run out of town along with those jerks that made the complaint. Same old story, range is there for years with no problems, then urban sprawl creeps up and now suddenly they are forced to drop what they have been doing for years, because their NEW neighbors ( would should have checked the area to see what was ALREADY AROUND where they intended to make their new home) decide they don't like the noise from their gun range. TOO BAD, the range was there first !!! Sell your house and move on.

  11. #25
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    You Colorado and Denver folks correct me if I'm wrong, but Elbert County is E.S.E of Denver or E. of Castle Rock, and is suffering from a huge influx of suburbanites and Denver escapees? I've been told by land developers that Elbert Co. is the fastest growing county in CO? Any validation there?

    I hope the County and BSA really approach this carefully - the BSA camp could be a real neighborhood/community resource.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    the BSA camp could be a real neighborhood/community resource.
    Only to neighbors who appreciate the inherent value of a life lead by the following standards ... and that's becoming fewer people all the time.

    To anyone seeking to turn the tide against unlawful, outrageous, amoral behavior and values, I can't think how anyone could object to having the BSA around. But that's just me.


    Boy Scout Oath, Law, Motto, and Slogan

    Scout Oath (or Promise)

    On my honor I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country
    and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong,
    mentally awake, and morally straight.


    Scout Law

    TRUSTWORTHY
    A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him.

    LOYAL
    A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation.

    HELPFUL
    A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward.

    FRIENDLY
    A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own.

    COURTEOUS
    A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together.

    KIND
    A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason.

    OBEDIENT
    A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them.

    CHEERFUL
    A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.

    THRIFTY
    A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

    BRAVE
    A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him.

    CLEAN
    A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.

    REVERENT
    A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.


    Scout Motto

    Be Prepared


    Scout Slogan

    Do a Good Turn Daily
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #27
    Member Array Serenity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sass20485 View Post

    That sheriff ought to be run out of town along with those jerks that made the complaint. Same old story, range is there for years with no problems, then urban sprawl creeps up and now suddenly they are forced to drop what they have been doing for years, because their NEW neighbors ( would should have checked the area to see what was ALREADY AROUND where they intended to make their new home) decide they don't like the noise from their gun range. TOO BAD, the range was there first !!! Sell your house and move on.
    I think that's a little unfair. The way I read it in several articles the camps neighbors didn't just move there and demand that the scouts close down the range. What I read said that what the neighbors objected to was the use of the range for much larger scale day-long sporting clay shoots that involved several hundred compeditors.

    The event that sparked the complaints wasn't the type of event they had been doing for years. This was the first of several planned fund raising shoots. We aren't talking about 20 scouts on the range for an hour to qualify for their merit badge. This was several hundred shooters blasting away for about 8 hours.

    It's like with my neighbors. I don't complain about every loud noise. It's part of being neighbors in a townhome. I probably won't even make a fuss about one loud party. But start doing it every week and we're gonna have a talk.

    It's really easy, as a supporter of 2nd Amendment rights, to look at a situation and say "the people who want to shoot must be in the right" but in this case it's not unreasonable for the neighbors of this scout camp to ask for there to be some limitations on what their neighbors can do when it effects them. I support the scouts but I'm not sure that holding an event like this was "friendly, courteous or kind" to their neighbors.
    "Friend, I would not harm thee for all the world, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot."--Unknown Quaker

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Moving to a home within spittin' distance of an existing railroad track does not give the new owner any special powers. That track is there; trains run on it; they're noisy; and they run on the schedule they run. Same with moving nearby to a busy throughfare. Same with the ocean, which can stink and be noisy ... often at the same time. Same with an airport, or an industrial park for heavy industry. Don't like that mix? Don't move there. It is that simple.

    But, make it a race track or a shooting range and new homeowners believe it their right to shut 'em down. Hey, even make it an extra-large John Deer, at the home of the guy with 3ac of grass to mow, and see whether neighbors come out to complain of the sizeable noise. We're not talking about pulling out the 2-stroke motorcycle at 4am, here.

    I'm convinced these instances of encroaching on the property rights of existing owners (BSA) is due to the accessibility, the "fringe" nature of such things, the non-necessity of such things. Call it incrementalism or whatever, but it sidesteps property rights for weak reaons. And, as others have indicated, the existing owners were there first, with that purpose in mind (gun range), and the new owners bought into that neighborhood with those realities.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #29
    Member Array Serenity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Moving to a home within spittin' distance of an existing railroad track does not give the new owner any special powers. That track is there; trains run on it; they're noisy; and they run on the schedule they run. Same with moving nearby to a busy throughfare. Same with the ocean, which can stink and be noisy ... often at the same time. Same with an airport, or an industrial park for heavy industry. Don't like that mix? Don't move there. It is that simple.

    But, make it a race track or a shooting range and new homeowners believe it their right to shut 'em down.
    There are several problems with this though. First of all, the original article implies that everybody who either complained or has concerns about these shoots just moved in recently and started complaining about things that the scout camp had been doing for years. This is not the case. While many of the annoyed residents had not been there as long as the Scout camp they had been there for quite a while in some cases. They had been there long enough to know that, yes, there is a gun range on the camp grounds, but never before had they been subjected to hours of continuous gunfire.

    Furthermore, what they, the neighbors, then discovered was that the scout camp was planning on making these shoots a regular occurance. (At one point a local Sporting Clay group was touting the opening of a new facility for regular shoots).

    Here's an analogy. I have a small cabin in the hills of North Carolina. Across the road our neighbor has some land where on occasion they take their firearm and do a little target shooting. No problem. It's noisy of course but it's at reasonable times and fairly infrequent so it doesn't impact our quality of life to the point where I'd ever so much as mention it to him. However, let's say that he suddenly develops an interest in....let's say...Cowboy Action Shooting (a sport that I happen to take part in) and decides that he's going to set up a range and hold weekly or even monthly shoots. Now we have an issue to discuss. I don't want to listen to 6-8 hours of pistols, rifles and shotguns going off every Saturday. First I'm going to express my concern to my neighbor and then if that does no good I'm going to use what legal means are at my disposal to get it stopped.

    It's not because I hate shooting sports...it's because my neighbor is now encroching on my quality of life to a significant degree.

    Another thing to consider is that these people, whenever they moved there, didn't move next door to the Boy Scouts of America Gun Club and Shooting Range. They moved next door to a camp. Your expectations of what you will see and hear next door to a campground is significantly different from what you should expect next to a busy gun range.

    This isn't about trying to prevent Scouts from shooting. It's about noise and being a good neighbor. There are two sides to this story and the original article only tells one and it tells it in a very biased way.
    "Friend, I would not harm thee for all the world, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot."--Unknown Quaker

  16. #30
    New Member Array abo-man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Following up, the Scouts were granted a temporary permit to continue. I haven't run across anything about a permanent resolution...

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...625406,00.html

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