Trade your 4th Amendment for the 2nd?

Trade your 4th Amendment for the 2nd?

This is a discussion on Trade your 4th Amendment for the 2nd? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Anyone who applies to buy a handgun in Maryland after July 31 will have to allow agencies to tell police whether he or she has ...

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Thread: Trade your 4th Amendment for the 2nd?

  1. #1
    Member Array Deacon51's Avatar
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    Trade your 4th Amendment for the 2nd?

    Anyone who applies to buy a handgun in Maryland after July 31 will have to allow agencies to tell police whether he or she has suffered from mental illness, has a history of violent behavior or has been confined for more than 30 consecutive days to a mental health facility.

    Maryland State Police said it will deny handgun purchases to anyone who does not sign a release authorizing health departments in Maryland or other states to disclose the information.


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    I wonder if MSP is fully HIPPA compliant? Since they will now have access to private medical information, they face enormous liability if they compromise it......

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
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    Maybe...

    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    I wonder if MSP is fully HIPPA compliant? Since they will now have access to private medical information, they face enormous liability if they compromise it......

    Matt
    An ENORMUS lawsuit will help them with their thinking on this one?
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    It did when the MSP decided it was exempt from the FMLA.

    They found out the hard way that they were not.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    Member Array Deacon51's Avatar
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    I forgot about HIPPA requirments for medical records... humm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    I wonder if MSP is fully HIPPA compliant? Since they will now have access to private medical information, they face enormous liability if they compromise it......

    Matt
    If they are giving consent then it is HIPAA compliant. If they don't give consent you can't purchase. Sort of like a breath test for DUI. If you don't consent you lose your license any way.
    A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.

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    I was not talking about the consent to obtain the records.

    HIPPA is very specific about how such data may be stored, how it must be safeguarded against accidental or intentional disclosure, and how it must be destroyed when it is no longer kept.

    Once they have your private medical information, they are liable for any unauthorized disclosure.

    And the penalties are severe - $10,000 per occurrence IIRC, with increases for subsequent violations.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    MA already does this toward same and has been for like 10 yrs. now.

    - Janq has a resident MA 'LTC-A'
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Member Array hrtbrk07's Avatar
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    I don't know...I might get some hate on this one, but I think it's a good idea. I just don't see the sense in allowing anyone in an unwell state of mind to own a gun. I mean, there is a reason you have to take the test to carry right? So stupid people don't carry. And if stupid people can't carry why should the mentally ill? Of course it could be a slippery slope if they start barring for anyone thats seen a doctor for a depression issue. I had to go see a shrink once after a fellow soldier died, and he said I had some depression, and if that kept me from owning a gun...Well I don't know what I'd do. But I wouldn't be happy about it.
    "Wear a gun to someone else's house, you're saying, 'I'll defend this home as if it were my own.' When your guests see you carry a weapon, you're telling them, 'I'll defend you as if you were my own family"

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    Member Array Plan B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrtbrk07 View Post
    I don't know...I might get some hate on this one, but I think it's a good idea. I just don't see the sense in allowing anyone in an unwell state of mind to own a gun. I mean, there is a reason you have to take the test to carry right? So stupid people don't carry. And if stupid people can't carry why should the mentally ill? Of course it could be a slippery slope if they start barring for anyone thats seen a doctor for a depression issue. I had to go see a shrink once after a fellow soldier died, and he said I had some depression, and if that kept me from owning a gun...Well I don't know what I'd do. But I wouldn't be happy about it.
    Two things:

    1) I think MO is already like this - they ask on the permit to acquire (until the 28th of this month) you need to apply for a permit to acquire a concealable firearm from your local sheriff's office. One of the questions they ask is about mental illness.

    2) Yes, this is a "slippery slope", but most rules are arbitrary. You need to draw a line in the sand about something / anything.

    Personally I come down on the libertarian side of leave me alone, don't let someone else hurt anyone else, and short of that, get out of my (and everyone else's) life, this is fairly far reaching. It's a tough call.

    cw

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    nope...don't care if it's done elsewhere--it's still wrong. Think about the idiots we elect to represent us...do you think you should undergo a mental health check before running for office?

    "shall not be infringed" was put there for a reason.

    What qualifications does MSP possess that allows them to evaluate mental health? No--this is feel-good legislation. What next? Mental health exams for a drivers license? Fishing license? Gas purchases? Where does it stop?

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    Member Array hrtbrk07's Avatar
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    I believe that a line of compromise can be drawn. Call me an idealist, but I think if we met in the middle we could accomplish alot. I know there are several other outlets as far as gaining illegal guns go. But, I would just like to point out that the person(i use the term person veeeerrrry loosely) that commited the VT shooting might not have been able to legally aquire his weapons if this law was in effect. Sure he would have gotten them illegally anyway, but there would have been more opportunity for him to have been apprehended.

    I understand the "shall not be infringed" part, but if that is the case, why do we need to take the CCW test in the first place? It's already being infringed. If you look at it realistically, this needs to be a very carefully written law. Like I said, I actually have something on my mental health record, so I've definatly got something to loose here.
    "Wear a gun to someone else's house, you're saying, 'I'll defend this home as if it were my own.' When your guests see you carry a weapon, you're telling them, 'I'll defend you as if you were my own family"

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    If you understand shall not be infringed then why are you suggesting any sort of compromise upon it? It doesn't matter if it has been walked over, it's going to contine being walked over until everyone steps up to the plate about it.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Member Array hrtbrk07's Avatar
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    You have to pick your battles guys. I don't think this is one that we can win. And all in all, if written properly, it makes sense. I'm sorry that I don't think the guy leaving his shrinks office after just saying he wants to shoot everyone in his workplace should be able to go out and get a gun. It doesn't make sense. It's not safe. As gun owners we preach safety. I'm pretty sure at some point almost every thread on here mentions safety. And there is just nothing safe about putting a gun in the hands of someone with a well documented history of mental illness. I agree we have to stand up for our gun rights, but in this case, I believe the best way to stand up for it is to make sure it is written fairly. Perhaps getting the Doctors opinion on if the person is a threat to himself or others would be a good clause. I don't like the idea of giving up information, but I'm willing to do it to keep my guns. This isn't a law to take our guns away, but to keep them out of the hands of the unstable. EDIT maybe they could create a database that effectively blacklists the mentally ill, that way the specifics would never have to be released, and the doctors could just put it in the database.
    Last edited by hrtbrk07; August 4th, 2007 at 02:33 AM. Reason: an idea that came late
    "Wear a gun to someone else's house, you're saying, 'I'll defend this home as if it were my own.' When your guests see you carry a weapon, you're telling them, 'I'll defend you as if you were my own family"

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    Member Array Deacon51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrtbrk07 View Post
    I don't know...I might get some hate on this one, but I think it's a good idea. I just don't see the sense in allowing anyone in an unwell state of mind to own a gun. I mean, there is a reason you have to take the test to carry right? So stupid people don't carry. And if stupid people can't carry why should the mentally ill? Of course it could be a slippery slope if they start barring for anyone that's seen a doctor for a depression issue. I had to go see a shrink once after a fellow soldier died, and he said I had some depression, and if that kept me from owning a gun...Well I don't know what I'd do. But I wouldn't be happy about it.
    I get what your saying... I do. No one wants a gun in the wrong hands, no one at all. I mean you have hand to answer the 'crazy' questions for years.

    What this new form in Maryland is, is a waver to allow the state access to your mental health records. Now, lets look at a guy like me. Have I ever been treated for a mental illness? Nope, never. I check the "No" box, the police have no record of me acting crazy in public, so I'm good. But what if I sign that forum. I have had several Mental Health Evaluations (don't worry, work related, sub duty and stuff kind of like that). I don't know what the Evaluations said, never cared as long as they said I was good to go.

    But that's not the point, the point is that I'm not sure if I trust the Maryland Att. General to make the right choice. You have people Joe Biden that claims anyone that calls there AR15 "My Baby" isn't mentally qualified to own a firearm. Are you going to let Biden make the call...

    Then there's the fact that what if my mental health records where not secured in the correct way?

    I don't know... look, if someone is a danger to themselves or others, no.. I think taking the guns away may be a good idea. BUT.. say someone has a slight breakdown, checks himself in, completes a 30 program and is cured. Do you trust Biden to do the right thing?

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