National Recoprocity Act of 2017 - Page 7

National Recoprocity Act of 2017

This is a discussion on National Recoprocity Act of 2017 within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Havok Slaves didn't have the opportunity to vote for change though. People who can own guns have rights. We haven't been asked ...

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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Slaves didn't have the opportunity to vote for change though. People who can own guns have rights.

    We haven't been asked to give up anything. You think this law is just going to slide right through as is?
    We just voted for change, and yes, I think it may slide right through as is.
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    "I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."

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  2. #92
    VIP Member Array TeflonDon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    We just voted for change, and yes, I think it may slide right through as is.
    How do you see that happening without Dem support? The Republicans need at least 60 votes to bypass a filibuster. The 48 Democrats in the Senate will be unified against it. As we can see from these type of debates, not all gun owners and, from that I'll assume, not all Senate Republicans will support the law. Also, when the prior National Reciprocity bill failed, the Senate makeup was 46 Dems to 54 Repubs. Dems picked up 2 seats in the Senate this most recent election.... It just ain't gonna happen.... The law isn't sliding anywhere as is. The only way it "might" gain Democrat support only is if Background Checks and an Assault Weapons Ban is attached to it. Let's realistic here...
    Last edited by TeflonDon; January 11th, 2017 at 04:33 PM.
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  3. #93
    Senior Member Array 19Kvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeflonDon View Post
    How do you see that happening without Dem support? The Republicans need at least 60 votes to bypass a filibuster. The 48 Democrats in the Senate will be unified against it. As we can see from these type of debates, not all gun owners and, from that I'll assume, not all Senate Republicans will support the law. Also, when the prior National Reciprocity bill failed, the Senate makeup was 46 Dems to 54 Repubs. Dems picked up 2 seats in the Senate this most recent election.... It just ain't gonna happen.... The law isn't sliding anywhere as is. The only way it "might" gain Democrat support only is if Background Checks and an Assault Weapons Ban is attached to it. Let's realistic here...
    Some Democrats are pro gun and Democrat politicians that want to keep their jobs in 2 short years may want to remember that. Forcing them to actually vote on the bill changes the dynamic.

    If the Democrats want to filibuster this (or any other) bill, make them actually talk away the hours.

    Also, Republican senators may vote against the bill but party politics will likely get them to vote for cloture.



    Trevor

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  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeflonDon View Post
    How do you see that happening without Dem support? The Republicans need at least 60 votes to bypass a filibuster. The 48 Democrats in the Senate will be unified against it. As we can see from these type of debates, not all gun owners and, from that I'll assume, not all Senate Republicans will support the law. Also, when the prior National Reciprocity bill failed, the Senate makeup was 46 Dems to 54 Repubs. Dems picked up 2 seats in the Senate this most recent election.... It just ain't gonna happen.... The law isn't sliding anywhere as is. The only way it "might" gain Democrat support only is if Background Checks and an Assault Weapons Ban is attached to it. Let's realistic here...
    The most recent bill didn't fail, it simply never made it out of committee. Small wonder there, since it would not have survived the inevitable veto even if it did pass the House and Senate. This is the first time in our nation's history that we will have had an occupant in the White House who has vocally supported national reciprocity while opposing background checks and AWBs. For the first time ever, reciprocity has a genuine chance of becoming a reality.
    "I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."

    Rob Leatham

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeflonDon View Post
    Neither of the points you both bring up addresses the fact that even if the bill makes it out of committee, there's not enough votes for it to pass. The fact that Trump supports it isn't going to get Democrats to vote for it and all Republicans to vote for it especially being that several Republicans tenured senators or openly not found of Trump.

    @19Kvet , some might, I'm willing to bet that all will not being that they will have to go on record if they do. National Reciprocity is something that almost all Democrats are against; however, many Republican voters are against as well. Not allowing a vote will allow them to not risk alienating any of their constituents especially if they have a large Democrats demographics. Even still, there still won't be enough votes to pass that 60 vote threshold.
    How many votes does it need to pass? (yes, a rhetorical question). Now that the antis are on their heels at the national level, it has the best chance it has ever had for passage and enactment.
    "I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."

    Rob Leatham

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19Kvet View Post
    Some Democrats are pro gun and Democrat politicians that want to keep their jobs in 2 short years may want to remember that. Forcing them to actually vote on the bill changes the dynamic.

    If the Democrats want to filibuster this (or any other) bill, make them actually talk away the hours.

    Also, Republican senators may vote against the bill but party politics will likely get them to vote for cloture.



    Trevor
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The most recent bill didn't fail, it simply never made it out of committee. Small wonder there, since it would not have survived the inevitable veto even if it did pass the House and Senate. This is the first time in our nation's history that we will have had an occupant in the White House who has vocally supported national reciprocity while opposing background checks and AWBs. For the first time ever, reciprocity has a genuine chance of becoming a reality.
    Neither of the points you both bring up addresses the fact that even if the bill makes it out of committee, there's not enough votes for it to pass. The fact that Trump supports it isn't going to get Democrats to vote for it and all Republicans to vote for it especially being that several tenured Republicans senators are openly not found of Trump.

    @19Kvet , some might, I'm willing to bet that all will not being that they will have to go on record if they do. National Reciprocity is something that almost all Democrats are against; however, many Republican voters are against as well. Not allowing a vote will allow them to not risk alienating any of their constituents especially if they have a large Democrat demographics. Even still, If all the Republicans vote for it, there still won't be enough votes to pass that 60 vote threshold.
    Last edited by TeflonDon; January 12th, 2017 at 10:59 AM. Reason: fixed typos
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  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    How many votes does it need to pass? (yes, a rhetorical question). Now that the antis are on their heels at the national level, it has the best chance it has ever had for passage and enactment.
    It takes 60 votes to bypass a filibuster, and Trumps win isn't going to prompt the "antis" to all of a sudden become or vote progun... Especially not for National Reciprocity. They aren't going to support anything Trump supports. It might be the better chance compared to last year, but it still doesn't have a chance of actually becoming law... Things might be different in 2018, but right now, logically, I do not see it coming to fruition.

    In 2018, Democrats will basically be defending 25 seats while the Republicans defend just 8 seats. That fact and the fact that mid-terms usually favor Republicans, National Reciprocity could logically become reality if the Republicans pick up enough seats, but as things are right now and as far as I see it, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon... Even then, it'll still has to survive a SCOTUS challenge that will surely follow, so even if it does pass sometime in 2018, it maybe tied up in courts for many more years before all states adhere to it.
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  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeflonDon View Post
    It takes 60 votes to bypass a filibuster, and Trumps win isn't going to prompt the "antis" to all of a sudden become or vote progun... Especially not for National Reciprocity. They aren't going to support anything Trump supports. It might be the better chance compared to last year, but it still doesn't have a chance of actually becoming law... Things might be different in 2018, but right now, logically, I do not see it coming to fruition.

    In 2018, Democrats will basically be defending 25 seats while the Republicans defend just 8 seats. That fact and the fact that mid-terms usually favor Republicans, National Reciprocity could logically become reality if the Republicans pick up enough seats, but as things are right now and as far as I see it, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon...
    You argument assumes the certainty of a filibuster, and the majority's unwillingness to work through it. Time will tell. In the meantime, I encourage everyone to actively support National Reciprocity.
    "I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."

    Rob Leatham

  10. #99
    VIP Member Array TeflonDon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    You argument assumes the certainty of a filibuster, and the majority's unwillingness to work through it. Time will tell. In the meantime, I encourage everyone to actively support National Reciprocity.
    Oh, it's a sure thing that they will. I'd bet my life on that one Mike.
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  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeflonDon View Post
    Oh, it's a sure thing that they will. I'd bet my life on that one Mike.
    The Republicans do not have the Majority in the Senate.

    There are 52 Senators with (R) after their name, but they are not all Republicans. McCain is a democrat and always has been. he also hates Trump, that brings us to 51-49.

    Graham, and Paul have stated that they will not support much if any Of Trumps Agenda. That bring sit down to 49-51.

    This doesn't include the usual RINO suspects in the Senate.

    Not only do the Republicans not have the votes to stop a democrat filibuster, they don't even have the votes to pass a simple majority.
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  12. #101
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    I will agree that there is no better time to push for pro 2A freedoms.

    Having said that, I don't see national reciprocity as something that will happen anytime soon, and I'm not sure I would want it to happen anyway, considering there is virtually no chance of it passing in it's current form.
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  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve4102 View Post
    The Republicans do not have the Majority in the Senate.

    There are 52 Senators with (R) after their name, but they are not all Republicans. McCain is a democrat and always has been. he also hates Trump, that brings us to 51-49.

    Graham, and Paul have stated that they will not support much if any Of Trumps Agenda. That bring sit down to 49-51.

    This doesn't include the usual RINO suspects in the Senate.

    Not only do the Republicans not have the votes to stop a democrat filibuster, they don't even have the votes to pass a simple majority.
    Both of the ones you mentioned have been solidly pro-gun throughout their careers. They are going to suddenly abandon their constituencies and join the antis simply because they don't like Trump?
    "I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."

    Rob Leatham

  14. #103
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    I would be happy to drive through safely.

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by pennzy View Post
    I would be happy to drive through safely.
    Yeah, except when my destination is Maryland or DC.
    "I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."

    Rob Leatham

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeflonDon View Post
    Oh, it's a sure thing that they will. I'd bet my life on that one Mike.
    A bet I won't hold you to.
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    "I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."

    Rob Leatham

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