Am I reading this law right?

This is a discussion on Am I reading this law right? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I am doing a study of the U.S Constitution and came across this: Article. IV. Section. 2. The Citizens of each State shall be entitled ...

Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Am I reading this law right?

  1. #1
    Member Array LastManOut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Emmaus, PA
    Posts
    420

    Am I reading this law right?

    I am doing a study of the U.S Constitution and came across this:

    Article. IV.

    Section. 2.

    The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.



    Could this be interpreted to read, if I have a concealed carry permit in Pennsylvania, I automatically have that same right in New Jersey, as per my driver's license.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by LastManOut View Post
    I am doing a study of the U.S Constitution and came across this:

    Article. IV.

    Section. 2.

    The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.



    Could this be interpreted to read, if I have a concealed carry permit in Pennsylvania, I automatically have that same right in New Jersey, as per my driver's license.
    Given my avatar, I feel compelled to respond.

    No, your interpretation is not the accepted reading. That clause is accepted to mean that a person from another state cannot be discriminated against in a state. In a particular case from 1890, an Ohio man cracked his head on a faulty sidewalk in Detroit, the Court decided he needed to be treated exactly the same as a Michigan citizen. This particular clause of the Constitution was cited.

    Findlaw is your friend.

  4. #3
    Member Array LastManOut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Emmaus, PA
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Given my avatar, I feel compelled to respond.

    No, your interpretation is not the accepted reading. That clause is accepted to mean that a person from another state cannot be discriminated against in a state. In a particular case from 1890, an Ohio man cracked his head on a faulty sidewalk in Detroit, the Court decided he needed to be treated exactly the same as a Michigan citizen. This particular clause of the Constitution was cited.

    Findlaw is your friend.
    Thanks! I'm reading the Federalist Papers now and decided to read the US Constitution before I continued and read this Article and wondered if that was the intent.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array downrange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    levittown PA
    Posts
    584
    wording of the law can be tricky let alone the constitution. research is definitely a must. good response SelfDefense.
    What's this button do?

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    It's not necessarily the WORDING of the law that is tricky -- it's the disingenous way some people will TWIST the law in order to claim that it means what they want it to mean.

    Like the liars who take the Second Amendment and claim that it's clear as day that you have to be a member of the state militia in order to have gun rights.

  7. #6
    Member Array lgsracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Bayou La Batre AL
    Posts
    44
    How about this one?

    Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution:

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    816
    Interpretation is the key here. When the constitution was written much independent power was given to the individual states and for good reason. However, some have misused this and stripped individual rights. It takes a grass roots effort and much support to bring back what has been lost. The upcoming elections will be a battle ground for conserving our basic rights.

  9. #8
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by lgsracer View Post
    How about this one?

    Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution:

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
    That is a good argument. Alas, it also fails under interpretation,

    From Findlaw:

    In a case decided in 1887, however, the Court remarked: ''Without doubt the constitutional requirement, Art. IV, Sec. 1, that 'full faith and credit shall be given in each State to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other State,' implies that the public acts of every State shall be given the same effect by the courts of another State that they have by law and usage at home.''And this proposition was later held to extend to state constitutional provisions.

    More recently this doctrine has been stated in a very mitigated form, the Court saying that where statute or policy of the forum State is set up as a defense to a suit brought under the statute of another State or territory, or where a foreign statute is set up as a defense to a suit or proceedings under a local statute, the conflict is to be resolved, not by giving automatic effect to the full faith and credit clause and thus compelling courts of each State to subordinate its own statutes to those of others but by appraising the governmental interest of each jurisdiction and deciding accordingly.

    That is, the full faith and credit clause, in its design to transform the States from independent sovereigns into a single unified Nation, directs that a State, when acting as the forum for litigation having multistate aspects or implications, respect the legitimate interests of other States and avoid infringement upon their sovereignty, but because the forum State is also a sovereign in its own right, in appropriate cases it may attach paramount importance to its own legitimate interests.
    Emphasis mine.

    Feel free to open carry in NJ, challenge your arrest based on the Constitutional argument, and let us know how it goes.

    Personally, I think this argument is effective. If you are able to CC in your own state (by a state record) you should be able to CC in any state.

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Texan in NWFlorida
    Posts
    1,588

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    It's not necessarily the WORDING of the law that is tricky -- it's the disingenous way some people will TWIST the law in order to claim that it means what they want it to mean.

    Like the liars who take the Second Amendment and claim that it's clear as day that you have to be a member of the state militia in order to have gun rights.
    Or the way some members of our Supreme Court believe the Constitution allows them to cite 'foreign law and opinion' to justify their opinions on legal matters before them?

  11. #10
    Member Array CorpsVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Over the hill
    Posts
    110
    Self Defense, I am also of the opinion that full faith and credit could make a good argument for CC holders of one state being allowed to CC in another. Guess it will take somebody to step up to the plate and be ready to suffer the consequences to get it tested though.
    If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will sit in a boat and drink beer.

  12. #11
    Member Array LastManOut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Emmaus, PA
    Posts
    420
    IIRC there is a Bill (maybe still in committee) that would give CCW permit holders the same rights as driver's licenses. (?)
    There is no doubt the the true intent of much of the US Constitution has been lost or perverted.
    Allow me to again make a shameless plug for my new found political party, www.ConstitutionParty.com. Their platform decries the requirement of any CCW permits as unconstitutional. Man if only we could elect more candidates from this party affiliation.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,235
    We often use the drivers license as a example of national recognition but the laws and punishment on driving do vary from state to state. The primary example is the minimum age, learners permits and training requirements. In fact many cities enact various laws in addition to state laws on driving. In many cities it is illegal to cut through a parking lot to avoid a red light or smoe will allow you to plead to careless driving rather than speeding which carries no points against you license or insurance.

    The universal acceptance of drivers license comparision to CWP is a start but not the panacea that it would appear on the surface.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Reading
    By MAINE0388 in forum Defensive Books, Video & References
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: August 16th, 2010, 10:07 AM
  2. Hello from Reading, PA
    By PRSOrator in forum New Members Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: April 9th, 2010, 06:03 PM
  3. Try This For Some Different Reading
    By Captain Crunch in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: December 30th, 2008, 09:43 AM
  4. Reading glasses or no reading glasses
    By rmilchman in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: October 24th, 2007, 05:41 PM
  5. Some Good Reading
    By Kid1911 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 27th, 2006, 02:15 AM