Need help with NY state assault weapons ban

This is a discussion on Need help with NY state assault weapons ban within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Long story short, I want to build an AR so I started reading the laws regarding assault weapons and well... I'm lost. The link I ...

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Thread: Need help with NY state assault weapons ban

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array darkvibe's Avatar
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    Need help with NY state assault weapons ban

    Long story short, I want to build an AR so I started reading the laws regarding assault weapons and well... I'm lost.

    The link I was using for reference:
    http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/nyawb/...4-explain.html

    So I get that assault weapons as defined by the law are illegal. But... my first hangup is down in the page where they define assault weapons as a semi-automatic rifle with detachable magazine having at least 2 characteristics for the included list (collapsible stock, flash suppressor,, pistol grip, etc....). I swear I saw Bushmaster AR's in gander mountain for sale that had detachable magazines, telescoping stocks and of course, pistol grips. If I remember right they also had flash suppressors. Is my memory really bad or am I mistaken in my reading of the law?

    My second hangup is where it says that copies of guns in any caliber and lists the Colt AR-15. How is any AR legal in NY state if all copies of Colt AR-15's are illegal? Is there a loophole where the other manufacturer's change some small things so they are not considered "copies"?

    Any input is appreciated. I want my rifle to be legal and the laws are a minefield.

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    I do not believe that you can legally posess an assault type firearm in the state of New York. Unless you owned one before 1994.
    So...it looks like your intended AR Build is not possible.

    It shall be unlawful to possess any "assault weapon" or a "large capacity ammunition feeding device". So called "assault weapons" lawfully possessed prior to September 14, 1994 and "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" manufactured prior to such date are grandfathered.
    A license shall not be issued for a handgun defined as an "assault weapon."
    Any person lawfully in possession of a firearm, rifle or shotgun who suffers the loss or theft of said weapon shall within twenty-four hours of the discovery of the loss or theft report the facts and circumstances of the loss or theft to a police department or sheriff's office.
    It is a crime to possess any rifle, shotgun or handgun in or upon the building or grounds of any school, college or university in the state without the written permission of the institution.
    It is a crime to possess a fake or imitation handgun with intent to use it unlawfully. It is a crime to intentionally point any firearm toward another person (except in self defense), even if no malice is involved.
    It is a crime to deface or alter the serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark on any handgun. Possession of any handgun that has been defaced creates a legal presumption that the possessor committed the offense. The presence of a firearm in a vehicle is presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying the vehicle except if: the firearm is found upon the person of one of the occupants; the firearm is found in a vehicle operated for hire by a duly licensed driver, then the presumption will not apply to the driver, or the firearm found is a handgun and one of the occupants has in his possession a valid license to have and carry concealed.
    Note: In this digest, the word "firearm" is used in its general sense, i.e., any rifle, shotgun, or handgun. However, readers of the New York law should be aware that the term "firearm," when it appears in the text of the statutes, has a special meaning, being applied only to handguns and other firearms "of a size which may be concealed upon the person."

    An "assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; (v) a grenade launcher; or (b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or (c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics: (i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned; (iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; (v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm; or (d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (All Models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (Sc-70); (iv) Colt Ar-15;(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC; (vi) SWD M 10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12; (vii) Steyr Aug; (viii) Intratec TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (ix) Revolving Cylinder Shotguns, such as (or Similar to) the Streetsweeper and Striker 12; (e) provided, however, that such term does not include: (i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that (a) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide-action; (b) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or (c) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16); (ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; (iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof, specified in appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such weapon was manufactured on October 1, 1993. The mere fact that a weapon is not listed in appendix A shall not be construed to mean that such weapon is an assault weapon; or (v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic pistol or any of the weapons defined in paragraph (d) of this subdivision lawfully possessed prior to September 14, 1994.

    "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September 13, 1994, that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

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    Senior Member Array darkvibe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I do not believe that you can legally posess an assault type firearm in the state of New York. Unless you owned one before 1994.
    So...it looks like your intended AR Build is not possible.
    That's pretty much how I read the law too. Then I see brand new AR's for sale in all of the gun shops including gander mountain as well as the gun shows. That's what has me confused. I can't imagine that all of these places breaking the law so I thought I have to be missing something.

    And the parts of the law I referenced in my first post in the wording of the law...
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    An "assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; (v) a grenade launcher;

    <snip>

    (d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as <snip> (iv) Colt Ar-15;

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    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    ...perhaps the ARs for sale are for LEOs only...

    Or perhaps they are the model that is a 'top-loader', and does not have a detachable magazine, making it not an AR-15.

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    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkvibe View Post
    Long story short, I want to build an AR so I started reading the laws regarding assault weapons and well... I'm lost.
    I have an easy solution: move out of NY! Here in the southwest, you can build or buy as many ARs as you want, with no restrictions on features like those oh-so-deadly bayonet mounts. You can also buy full-auto models and silencers after paying a tax stamp.

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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    I have an easy solution: move out of NY!
    There is a helpful response

    As a fellow NY resident I feel for you. I know that you can buy new ARs in shops in NY, I see them all the time. SOmehow they skirt the law without breaking it, try asking someone at a real gunshop how it is legal.

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    JD
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    Well they could be a top-loader model, with a stock that looks like the collapsable one (does not collapse, still has full length buffer tube), no bayonet lug and has a welded on compensator, not the removable comp. or flash suppressor.

    Gee, just typing that makes my stomach turn...

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    VIP Member Array BigEFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    You can also buy full-auto models and silencers after paying a tax stamp.
    Oh, how sweet, true freedom must taste.
    Lex et Libertas Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!

    "Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell

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    Darkvibe, I would check/read the laws again and make sure those aren't NYC laws. Those sound like the NYC laws my bud there in Brooklyn has to put up with. I am originally from Long Island, I was able to buy an AK with 30 rounders back in '98, and it was on sale no less. When I left in '03 the shop that transferred my pistols to Florida had AR's all over. I do remember that they were the full stock models, not collapsible, but they had them. I would check again. Hope that helps.

    SY

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array darkvibe's Avatar
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    Those are the NY state laws, not NY city.

    So far I've determined some things (some have been mentioned here already) or at least I think I have. I'm stopping at the gun shop this saturday and I'm going to ask them. I also have my dad asking a family friend who has his FFL and class 3. He's pretty up on his laws.

    Anyway... best I can figure...

    -A fixed flash hider is considered a "muzzle break" by the ATF so it does not violate the law. Only a threaded one would.

    -The stocks I saw are likely fixed in place as already mentioned here.

    -Manufacturers make some very minor changes so they are not a clone of the colt to get around the ban. I hear thats why some parts that fit AR-15's will not fit the Colt brand (I think it was a pin diameter?)

    I'll update this thread if I get more info.

    edit: about the 30 round magazine comment above... "High capacity" magazines (more than 10 rounds) are only illegal if they were manufactured after 9/13/94. Now that the federal bad ended and they are being made again, magazines made after 9/13/04 are still illegal per the NY state law. the law reads "LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE" MEANS A MAGAZINE, BELT, DRUM, FEED STRIP, OR SIMILAR DEVICE, MANUFACTURED AFTER SEPTEMBER THIR TEENTH, NINETEEN HUNDRED NINETY-FOUR ..."
    Last edited by darkvibe; September 7th, 2007 at 01:09 AM.

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    Senior Member Array NYcarry's Avatar
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    Well darkvibe, grab a garbage plate and pen out some letters to our Senators and Assemblymen.

    I just keep at it.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array darkvibe's Avatar
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    haha. Everyone knows rochester for the artery clogging goodness named the garbage plate. I'm on the "1 plate per week" diet. Working in walking distance from that place is going to give me a heart attack.

    I've written albany more than once. Maybe I'll do it again be a bit more sarcastic this time. I should ask for examples of a drive by stabbing or use of a grenade launcher in a crime. It must have been a huge problem for them to be banned.

    On a serious note, with all of the documentation out there about the federal ban and the statistics proving that it did nothing to the crime rate maybe someone will listen this time. Then again a little common sense is probably too much to ask.

    I'm stuck in NY though. As much as I hate some things about it I'm not moving away from my family.

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    The New York State law concerning "assault" rifles is an exact copy of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban only there is no Sunset Provision attached to it...meaning that it won't ever expire.
    A sad situation for the honest, law abiding, American Citizens living in the State Of New York.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    The only hope for an end to the NYS AWB is a Supreme Court ruling

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array darkvibe's Avatar
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    I stopped at the gun shop for some ammo and mags. Looked at the ARs and was told that the adjustable stocks are in fact fixed in place, they just look adjustable.

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