Mich. Lawmaker Wants to Arm Educators

Mich. Lawmaker Wants to Arm Educators

This is a discussion on Mich. Lawmaker Wants to Arm Educators within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As featured today at ABCNews.com: Mich. Lawmaker Wants to Arm Educators Under Bill, Specially Trained Faculty and Staff Could Carry Concealed Pistols on Campus Under ...

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Thread: Mich. Lawmaker Wants to Arm Educators

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Mich. Lawmaker Wants to Arm Educators

    As featured today at ABCNews.com:

    Mich. Lawmaker Wants to Arm Educators
    Under Bill, Specially Trained Faculty and Staff Could Carry Concealed Pistols on Campus



    Under a Michigan bill proposed this month, specially trained teachers, administrators and staff could carry a concealed pistol on school grounds if approved by a principal. The controversial idea grew out of recent school shootings like those at Virginia Tech and Columbine High School in Colorado.

    By DAVID SCHOETZ
    Sept. 11, 2007

    Anyone other than a member of law enforcement who carries a gun into a Michigan school right now is breaking the law and, according to one freshman lawmaker, likely intent on harming students, faculty and staff.

    And there are horrific examples to illustrate Rep. David Agema's point: 32 shot dead on the Virginia Tech campus in April, five girls shot to death at an Amish school in Lancaster County, Pa., in 2006 and 13 people gunned down at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999.

    With precisely those school rampages in mind as well as the notion that Islamic extremists may start targeting American academic institutions Agema has filed a controversial bill that would allow gun-owning faculty and staff with proper training and permits to pack concealed pistols inside a school or on school property.

    Agema, a Republican from outside Grand Rapids, introduced the bill this month with the support of 15 Republican sponsors.

    "What motivated me to do this is a form of disaster preparedness," Agema told ABC News. "To me, it's about safety for kids first. I just think we have to have something like this if something starts happening with al Qaeda."

    Under Michigan House Bill No. 5162, teachers, administrators and staff could carry a concealed pistol on school grounds if approved by a principal. The principal at an individual school could require interested educators to take additional training, perhaps with a police department.

    The proposed legislation would also allow parents and legal guardians who already possess proper gun permits to carry concealed pistols on school property while picking up or dropping off a child.

    Agema said entrenched partisan bickering with a Democratic-controlled Michigan House would probably prevent the bill from even emerging out of committee hearings.

    Politics may not be Agema's only roadblock. Already, a stream of Michigan educators have come out against the legislation.

    Doug Pratt, a spokesman for the Michigan Education Association, the state's biggest educator union, said his organization has always come out against concealed weapons. Still, he also described Agema's proposal as having "no logic."

    "You talk to the average person on the street and this just doesn't fly," Pratt said. "Why would we take the chance of something tragic happening by simply introducing guns into the environment. Nothing about this makes sense."

    Grand Rapids Superintendent Bernard Taylor, for example, told the local newspaper the proposed bill left him "speechless," before saying, "If that's what we've come to, I need to find a new line of work."...

    The complete article can be found at; http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3586066&page=1

    - Janq

    Note: In 2004 VA passed legislation allowing parents to carry firearms concealed on their person and/or store said firearm in their car while on K-12 public school grounds. This came to be as a result of concern and complaints from parents who otherwise can legally carry in the state but could not do so when picking up their child or even waiting parked in queue. They prior would have to wait far down the the road from the school because prior the law was no possession within like 200 yds. or so of a schools grounds. Grounds meaning the furthest point which isn't necessarily the schools front door or student pickup/drop off zone. Following the passage of that law which was controversial there have been zero cases of a concealed carry or firearm stored in car parent going off the reservation and discharging their weapon on a school grounds.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    "Why would we take the chance of something tragic happening by simply introducing guns into the environment. Nothing about this makes sense."
    Take the chance of something tragic happening????!!!! Historically, tragedy already happens on a nearly regular basis.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    It's good that this issue keeps coming up. The only way it will ever become reality is if people refuse to let it be buried. We may lose this particular battle, but in the process, someone else will have a lightbulb moment and try to get the same thing passed near them.

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    Member Array Philbert's Avatar
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    Needless to say that House Bill 5162 is a good start, but needs a hell of a lot of work to make it sell.
    One major problem, IMO, is the provision letting the principal of the school having the discretion to allow/disallow whomever they see fit to carry or not, or to insist on "additional" training. This just opens up a whole can of worms as you can imagine.
    If this bill makes it out of committee, I'll be amazed.

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    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    It will depend upon the 'altitude' of pork...
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    Actually, this will happen when pigs fly!
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    Member Array xd.40sub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    It will depend upon the 'altitude' of pork...
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    Actually, this will happen when pigs fly!



    why? Teachers can carry in Utah. Why is it such a stretch of the imagination that it could happen anywhere else?
    do what you can with what you have where you are at (theodore roosevelt)

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    MI has become more gun friendly over the years, so it is possible, yet probably not likely.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I would think that the decision should be made by the school district, not any one principle. If the principle at one school in the district allowed for people to carry, but another principle did not, that would open a whole case of worms. If the school district was open to carrying that would apply to all people employed by them.

    I would think that the normal concealed carry requirements would be enough to allow someone to qualify, although I don't know what MI requirements.

    There should be a greater emphasis on weapon retention and secure storage of the weapon simply because of all the minors that they come into contact with, but other than that I don't see a problem with teachers who are qualified using a concealed carry on campus.
    Last edited by farronwolf; September 12th, 2007 at 05:04 PM.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    They had a discussion/debate on FoxNews this morning with the State rep and president of Brady, Inc. The state rep discussed facts, the Brady guy talked about emotion..."what if the teacher loses the gun? Someone with a gun in school playing secret agent or 007 only works in the movies...there is no way anyone will get a clear shot....we need more police in schools..."

    Then FoxNews played the video of the DEA "agent" shooting himself in the foot.

    http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player...News&261&&&exp

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Apparently the teacher's lives are more important than those with a carry permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xd.40sub View Post
    why? Teachers can carry in Utah. Why is it such a stretch of the imagination that it could happen anywhere else?
    No, you missed my point! I am strongly in favor of carry in the schools just like UT, but the way the media portrays it...it would lead one to believe that the pro-gunners are pushing to give ALL teachers their own gun. The anti-media folks want to make it sound like guns should/would be handed out like colored paper.
    Heck, most teachers in my building think this way...

    I'm sure that in Utah, many teachers do not want anything to do with weapons...pretty liberal group for the most part.

    I just wish the idea of individuals already trained, or wanting to get trained...and happen to be teaching...would have the opportunity to carry anywhere, including school!

    Respectfully submitted...
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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    But this bill doesn't mean squat because it is still up to the school administrators to decide if they want to allow its educators to carry. This bill just gives them the power to make the choice.

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    If we trust these teachers to be responsible enough to allow them to help transform the minds of our young people into those of functioning adults...shouldn't we trust them enough to responsibly handle a CCW?

    Potentially, which is more dangerous; a GLOCK or 35 teenagers?
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    If every teacher at the average high school were aremd they would still consist of a minority of guns at the school. Lots of high school and junior school students are carrying right now whether the Brady Bunch admits it or not. I know of two teachers who's husbands are LEO and keep a gun in their car because they can't carry it into the school. My wife was instructed the other day that if she saw a certain parent at the school to immediately call 911. This is not at the inner-city schools that you hear so much about.

    An interesting story from about a year ago was at one of the local elementary shools three fourth graders got nad at the principal and decided to take care of him. They decided that the next day one of them would bring a gun to school so they could kill the principal and run away to Florida. The next day one came with his clothes packed in his backpack along with the gun. The other two after thinking about it chickened out and told on him the next day.

    So far the only shootings I have heard of in the local schools is a couple that have shot themselves but I keep waiting.

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