2nd Amendment Rights Not for Individuals?!

This is a discussion on 2nd Amendment Rights Not for Individuals?! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by TC_FLA Just goes to show you, Judges and lawyers are not for yor rights. Well I don't know about that. I'm a ...

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Thread: 2nd Amendment Rights Not for Individuals?!

  1. #16
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_FLA View Post
    Just goes to show you, Judges and lawyers are not for yor rights.
    Well I don't know about that. I'm a lawyer and take a back seat to no one in terms of defending our Second Amendment rights and am as anti gun control as one can possibly be.

    It is wrong and sometimes dangerous to paint with too broad a brush.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Douthit View Post
    This illustrates one of the fallacies of democracy (small d). You have a very antagonistic population of gun haters in Hawaii and also a very substantial crime rate. Rape and violence are rather high for this paradise. The numbers in Honolulu compare with Atlanta, GA and Detroit, MI. These crimes might be reduced by a concealed carry law. There are plenty of guns in Hawaii but most are owned by the crooks. It is always so in places that use democracy, and fear to control people. Fear is conjured up by the newsmedia.
    I agree with everything you said except we do not have a "Democracy", we have a "Republic type of government".
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    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Douthit View Post
    This illustrates one of the fallacies of democracy (small d). You have a very antagonistic population of gun haters in Hawaii and also a very substantial crime rate. Rape and violence are rather high for this paradise. The numbers in Honolulu compare with Atlanta, GA and Detroit, MI.
    I just went on a vacation on Hawaii a couple of months ago. It seemed like a very safe place to me.

    However, we spent our time on Kauai, not on Oahu where Honolulu is. There's 40-60,000 people on the whole island.

    Why anyone would travel to Hawaii just to visit Honolulu is beyond me. It's a city, just like any other city, except with better weather than most.

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    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Well I don't know about that. I'm a lawyer and take a back seat to no one in terms of defending our Second Amendment rights and am as anti gun control as one can possibly be.

    It is wrong and sometimes dangerous to paint with too broad a brush.
    I'm sorry, but in my experience and from my observation, lawyers are one of those professions where the 95 bad apples ruin it for the other 5. If you're one of the 5, that's great, but don't deny the other 95 bad apples' existence or numbers.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Bunny View Post
    I agree with everything you said except we do not have a "Democracy", we have a "Republic type of government".
    Correction...we used to have a republican form of Government. Think about it...all we hear on the news, tv, and in person is folks that WE elected(yes we're the dummies) claiming that we need to better our democracy or how we need to bring democracy to the rest of the world, or how about how we need socialized medicine or government funded healthcare or $20/hour minimum wage or ...insert democracy leaning to socialism choice here...

    Wake up folks. The republican form of government we were founded on is becoming harder and harder to see every day. Before long, those last few pages too will be completely erased.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Here's the deal: it is not SCOTUS that will necessarily render the correct opinion; It was DC that claimed the 2A was a collective right, and therefore could not be applied in the Parker case. What has caused many constitutional scholars like Levinson to weigh in on this is the disturbing trend amongst the "activist" judges is to water down the "individualistic" portions of the constitution. Once you start chipping away at the individual protections, it gets easier to slide down the slippery slope to oblivion, and I think these constitutional scholars, for all their liberal or conservative views regardless of which side of the issue they fall upon realize this, and are willing to file briefs on behalf of the court and the plaintiffs citing historical evidence and legal precedent to aid the justices in rendering a decision.

    let us Hope......
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  8. #22
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    I'm sorry, but in my experience and from my observation, lawyers are one of those professions where the 95 bad apples ruin it for the other 5. If you're one of the 5, that's great, but don't deny the other 95 bad apples' existence or numbers.
    I don't think much can be gained by our getting into a dispute about this, but I do wonder how you are defining "bad apples," and where you come up with the 95 out of 100 statement, and yes I do deny your numbers.

    I am sorry if you have a bad experience with an attorney or attorneys, but I am not going to sit by and permit you or any other members to unfairly impugn an entire profession, although I do realize that your view is shared by many, if not most, other members of the Forum, so folks please spare me the +1's on the anti-lawyer posts.

    Ron
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Hawaii is part of the 9th Circuit and the motion to dismiss is based on the caselaw for that circuit. See Silveira v. Lockyer, 312 F.3d 1052 (9th Cir. 2002), cert. denied, 124 S. Ct. 803 (2003).

    Let us all remember that the 9th circuit is the most overturned circuit of them all, and I can foresee the motion to dismiss being granted, an appeal filed and the case worming its way up to the Supreme Court.

    As to Parker influencing this case, that depends on the decision in Parker.

    Its going to be interesting to see what comes of this, but I'm not going to place bets just yet...

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    I was stationed in Hawaii when I was in the Marines. Getting out of there was the best thing ever for my gun collection.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  11. #25
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    Here's the way I could see SCOTUS ruling:

    As the phrase "keep and bear arms" is an inseparable condition, such as that one cannot reasonably exist without the other, and since "the people" mentioned in many of the Bill of Rights refers to individual citizens, we hold that the District of Columbia's ban on handguns is unconstitutional, and that the citizens of the District of Columbia, as well as all United States citizens, have the inalienable right to keep and bear arms, notwithstanding reasonable denials based on age, mental defect or status as convicted felons.

    With such a conclusion, and since there were no laws forbidding concealed carry in colonial days, this should prove that carrying (bearing) a concealed weapon without a permit is constitutional.

    But I'm an optimist.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  12. #26
    Ex Member Array TC_FLA's Avatar
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    God, don't you just love bottom feeders....Lol..(Just kidding). I do Contract law for a living. So I can cut lawyers all I want.

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