Microstamping and lead hunting ammo bans signed into CA law

This is a discussion on Microstamping and lead hunting ammo bans signed into CA law within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm just wondering if this is going to tick off the rest of the firearm manufacturers enough so that they will not try to make ...

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Thread: Microstamping and lead hunting ammo bans signed into CA law

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    I'm just wondering if this is going to tick off the rest of the firearm manufacturers enough so that they will not try to make a firearm compliant and just stop all, and I mean all, sales and service to the state like Barrett did.

    Does anyone know if LE firearms have to have this microstamping stuff?

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  3. #17
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    Maybe I'm missing something here, but just what is microstamping? Why is this going to be so much better than whats already in place?
    Will the microstamping occur at the factory on everything that comes out, just so the can sell in Kali?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Rotorflyr's Avatar
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    Six,
    You can read some about it here:
    Microstamping


    Essentially it's yet another "Feel Good" government move that will do nothing as far as cutting down on crime.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Microstamping of each spent cartridge case.

    Rejected by Maryland of all places.
    Last edited by paramedic70002; October 14th, 2007 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Add info
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jualdeaux View Post
    I'm just wondering if this is going to tick off the rest of the firearm manufacturers enough so that they will not try to make a firearm compliant and just stop all, and I mean all, sales and service to the state like Barrett did.
    I believe that to be the only sensible approach on their part. I apologize to those of you who live in CA, but if the manufacturers don't stand up to this nonsense now, ten-plus states will be requiring it within five years. OMO, YMMV....

  7. #21
    Member Array zxd9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falcon1 View Post
    I believe that to be the only sensible approach on their part. I apologize to those of you who live in CA, but if the manufacturers don't stand up to this nonsense now, ten-plus states will be requiring it within five years. OMO, YMMV....
    I agree. No more gun sales to CA including law enforcement. Let 'em have wheel guns. But hey aren't wheel guns semi-automatic too? I mean you get one shot with each pull of the trigger and the next cartridge is automatically loaded. Hmmmm.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorflyr View Post
    Six,
    You can read some about it here:
    Microstamping


    Essentially it's yet another "Feel Good" government move that will do nothing as far as cutting down on crime.
    Thanks. I just skimmed it, but the points I got out of it are stupid. Not that I expected any better...
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zxd9 View Post
    I agree. No more gun sales to CA including law enforcement. Let 'em have wheel guns. But hey aren't wheel guns semi-automatic too? I mean you get one shot with each pull of the trigger and the next cartridge is automatically loaded. Hmmmm.
    Read Ronnie Barret's letter to the LAPD
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

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    Signed: Me!

  10. #24
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    Barrett has the right idea

    As a lifelong Californian and gun owner, when this bill becomes active (2010) I wholeheartedly hope all gun manufacturers halt ALL sales and service to CA state, county and city LE agencies, no exceptions. With support from national gun owners, we can cut off out of state suppliers from supporting these agencies too.

    I would gladly endure such a boycott to get national attention and strangle the idiots who proclaim microstamping to be a "crime fighting tool" - like the governor I can no longer support. Even his own staff called this bill "garbage" when I spoke with them a few weeks ago!

    Stopping support to CA agencies from out of state distributors is critical to making this work. The manufacturers and distributors should begin looking at new contractual agreements to prevent end-runs of the boycott. They should also cut off any parts and service once current contracts are fulfilled.

    It's time to play real hardball and California's gun owners need the help of the whole nation to get this undone before it becomes a national curse. Ted Kennedy in MA is actively working on an east coast version of this atrocity. No state should consider itself immune if this gains federal momentum.

  11. #25
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    LEO exemption to "safe" list

    To answer a previous poster's question, LEO is exempt from purchasing from the "safe" firearms list. This has presented a legal issue in departments that allow firearms that are not CA-approved for civilian purchase because they are "unsafe" to use.

    If a handgun doesn't have a loaded chamber indicator or a magazine trigger disconnect, it's "not safe" in CA according to CA law. For example, the new HK P30 will probably not be "safe" in CA while elsewhere in the world, law enforcement would love to so equip their officers with that handgun, configured as it would be rejected in CA. I doubt that any handgun expert would agree that the P30 is an inherently unsafe handgun. Fortunately, CA knows better than to rely on industry standards.

    The legal issue is that police departments allow their own officers to use legally-defined "unsafe" handguns in the course of their jobs. Does that make any shooting with such a gun a potential legal liability to that police agency?

    The answer, of course, is to mandate that LEO must use ONLY handguns that are approved by the CA Dept of Justice as being "safe" for use in CA. (I know this whole issue is ridiculous. Feel free to laugh until your stomach aches.)

    For a bit of history, this "safe list" came from a stated desire to rid CA of "Saturday night specials" - the ultra-cheap handguns that were responsible for a huge number of shooting deaths. Of course, the violence continued and the list morphed into a tool to limit the handguns available to California residents. Each handgun MODEL costs $200 in fees to have tested and added to the list. The law that made this possible was originally considered benign but has since proven very oppressive. That's why it's important to fight at every stage.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    3 Cheers for the embargo.....

    This may be a great tool for the manufacturers that may prove to be a godsend for us. After all, it sounds as if the LAPD is cutting off its nose to spite its face by treating Mr. Barrett like a drug dealer criminal displaying his rifle as a source of crime. I think he made an excellent point in saying that it is "american" private industry that is supplying government agencies with the firearms they need to do their jobs. I think a voluntary embargo on weapon and ammunition sales to law enforcement agencies would be a great idea, and would be difficult to explain by the media seeking police chiefs constantly seeking "photo ops" to further their own political ambition. Many states back east that had unfriendly views towards gun ownership ended up losing those factory jobs to other states eventually. There were other mitigating factors as well, such as union labor problems, etc. but the fact of the matter is that when the climate changed, the manufacturers pulled up stakes and moved elsewhere.

    What someone needs to do now is persuade the manufacturers to band together and host a 1 year embargo on Law enforcement sales as a way to send a message through all law enforcement circles that they share a symbiotic relationship with all of us here in the gun world, and that to hurt us, will hurt them just as much.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Now how is Ahnold going to microstamp his souvenir plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  14. #28
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    The Brady bunch is all pleased with this development....


    VICTORY! Landmark Gun Legislation Signed Into Law!
    Gov. Schwarzenegger Signs Innovative Bill to Reduce Gun Violence

    Dear Chris,

    We've had a major victory in California! Your Brady Campaign, its California Chapters, and many allies including law enforcement worked hard to pass the Crime Gun Identification Act of 2007. And your support helped make it happen.

    This ground-breaking law will allow police to match bullet shells found at a crime scene to the handgun that fired the bullets. Law enforcement will now have new crime-solving tools to more quickly apprehend armed criminals and gang members.


    This tremendous victory in California comes on the heels of passing other life-saving legislation this year in Maine, Illinois, Virginia, and Connecticut that will prevent gun violence. Thank you for your continued support and activism to help us pass sensible gun laws.

    We need your continued support to pass similar legislation in other states. Please click here to give a gift of $35 to support our efforts to pass strong state guns laws across the country.

    And help us spread the word: click here to forward this email to friends, family, and colleagues.

    Thank you for helping to reduce gun violence in America!

    Sincerely,

    Sarah Brady, Chair
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

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  15. #29
    Member Array gpsxplr's Avatar
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    What are they refering to concerning Maine?
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

    ~Benjamin Franklin

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array BigEFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    Also, any handgun that does not have this microstamping will be considered unsafe, and therefore illegal to sell or transfer.
    Being that I am a resident of this god-forsaken state I did a little research. Effective Jan 1, 2010 no guns will be added to the safe list that don't have microstamping. Current guns on the list will stay until they expire and won't be renewed unless they update that model to include microstamping.

    If you own a gun that does not have microstamping, you will be able to transfer it but only through private party transfers. Only certain transfers are illegal and those are basically dealer sales. It is much the same way now. The S&W Model 10 is not on the safe list right now(I think it ended production long before the list came into existence.) but I can sell my model 10 to another individual through a dealer. A dealer cannot sell one though.

    The list was originally created to keep "Saturday Night Specials" from being sold in CA but as many of us gun owners stated then, it is being used as a oppressive tool of the State to keep as many firearms out of the CA market as possible.

    I suspect that the microstamping law will preclude many manufacturers from selling in CA. I hope they all leave and tell LE agencies to dream on when they come looking.
    Lex et Libertas Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!

    "Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell

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