Here's one to watch - Reporter with CCW arrested on school property (merged)

This is a discussion on Here's one to watch - Reporter with CCW arrested on school property (merged) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Since this happened to a reporter, maybe we can get some good press out of the discrimination of CCWs, if the DA drops the charges ...

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Thread: Here's one to watch - Reporter with CCW arrested on school property (merged)

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array rabywk's Avatar
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    Since this happened to a reporter, maybe we can get some good press out of the discrimination of CCWs, if the DA drops the charges or he is found not guilty.
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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Here's one to watch - Reporter with CCW arrested on school property (merged)

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304636,00.html

    Miami TV Reporter Arrested for Entering School Property With Gun

    A television reporter investigating a story on school violence was arrested after carrying a loaded gun onto school property, authorities said.

    Jeffrey Weinsier of WPLG-TV, an ABC network, was taken into custody Tuesday at Miami Central High School after ignoring several warnings not to walk on school property, Miami-Dade schools police said.

    "Kindly go across the street now," an officer is shown telling Weinsier during the videotaped encounter.

    "I'm not," Weinsier replied. The officer then handcuffed him.

    Weinsier, 40, was charged with possession of a firearm on school grounds, trespassing on school property with a weapon and resisting officers without violence.

    The photographer working with Weinsier, Frank Debesa, said afterward: "Jeff did have a gun on him."

    Weinsier began carrying a gun after he received death threats stemming from a series he did about unsanitary conditions at restaurants, according to the station.

    "At this point, Channel 10 is still reviewing the circumstances surrounding today's arrest," said Dave Boylan, the station's vice president and general manager.

    Weinsier has a concealed weapons permit, but state law prohibits anyone from being armed at schools, police Detective Ed Torrens said.

    Weinsier was released from jail on $11,000 bond.

    "I've been advised not to say anything," he told Channel 10 afterward. "The videotape speaks for itself. ... I was not trespassing."

    A telephone message left on his work voice mail by The Associated Press was not immediately returned.
    Seems to me this hinges on whether he was actually on school grounds or not. Hopefully, the video will concretely answer that. Sounds like the officer gave him a chance to leave, and he refused. Surely there's more to it.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
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  4. #18
    Member Array Deacon51's Avatar
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    I hope the other thread gets merged into this one, it has a better title.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    I saw the video - he was on the sidewalk, using the school as a background for a story he was taping on the violence in that school.

    Cops, at the request of the school administrator, tried to get him to go away. He was arrested for 'trespassing' on a public sidewalk.

    After arrest, it was found that he was carrying a handgun, for which he did have a valid permit.

    I guess the 1st and 2nd Amendments are void in their town.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Perhaps the same manner of idiot who makes broad assumptions on the law

    Here is the relevant section on the law as it relates to the state of Florida(where I notice you are a CCL holder - didn't you read this?):

    790.06 (12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05 [below]; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose [BARS no, Restaurants are OK]; any elementary or secondary school facility; any area vocational-technical center; any college or university facility [there is an on going debate at to what a "facility" means; a building? the lunch room? The BIG question is the parking lot, can you leave it in your car? Probably, but I don't want to be the test case!] unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or non-lethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile.

    I have removed a lot of the text and left only those parts relevant to the situation. The bolded areas are commentary and not part of the language of the statute. My guess is that unless he was in the building he was fine. Since none of us have seen the actual video yet we will have to withhold any further judgement.

    This does bring up a couple of points: Most of the posts about this guy are less than supportive. Think on this: here is an individual who has received death threats and is doing a story about a school with a high level of violence... which of US wouldn't carry in that situation? I think its a strong possibility that this is a situation where a school officer over-reacted and likely didn't fully understand the law he was "enforcing". Also - does anyone doubt that the school's administration didn't want this "black-eye" story run and was attempting to chase the guy off?
    Yes, I see you've made the assumption that school facility does not include the grounds. Your assumption is incorrect.

    You would do well to read F.S. 790.115:

    (2)(a) A person shall not possess any firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade or box cutter, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, at a school-sponsored event or on the property of any school, school bus, or school bus stop; however, a person may carry a firearm:

    1. In a case to a firearms program, class or function which has been approved in advance by the principal or chief administrative officer of the school as a program or class to which firearms could be carried;

    2. In a case to a career center having a firearms training range; or

    3. In a vehicle pursuant to s. 790.25(5); except that school districts may adopt written and published policies that waive the exception in this subparagraph for purposes of student and campus parking privileges.

    For the purposes of this section, "school" means any preschool, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, secondary school, career center, or postsecondary school, whether public or nonpublic.
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...790/Sec115.HTM
    Please note that persons with CWFLs are not excluded from this statute. To the contrary, 790.115 specifically indicates that a CWFL holder who violates the provisions of 790.115 shall be punished in accordance with F.S. 790.06(12).

    We know that the reporter was not:

    1. Attending a firearms program at the school.
    2. Carrying a cased firearm to a career center that has a firearms training range, or
    3. Carrying in his vehicle.

    So he's in violation of 790.115.

    Matt
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  7. #21
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    HotGuns - you would lose that bet (at least in FL). The law was not intended to restrict people's ability to carry to the school (or down the sidewalk). Even school grounds are a grey area and the definition of "facility" is the big question.
    You might be right since the laws in Florida are different, so I really cant say. However, look at it like this. It may be legal to walk in front of the school with a licensed handgun or even on school property with no issues. However, if one is charged with a crime, in this case trespassing, then the permit does become an issue.

    We could argue forever if there was a crime committed, there may have been there may have not, but I'm quit sure that it will be discussed by lawyers in court.

    I want to make clear that my statement "you can't count on the LEOs to understand and be 100% versed in the intricacies of law" was in NO way a knock on law enforcement officers. It was simply a point of fact. There are to many laws on the books for any LEO to be completely familiar with all of them.
    Clear enough and I didn't take it as a slam. I have taught LEO's on various issues dealing with handgun permits as an SME, and as a part timer myself I am well aware that sometimes the laws can be very vague, and that there is really no way for an LEO to know everything...contrary to popular belief.
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array briansmech's Avatar
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    barring local statutes stating otherwise, the sidewalks in front of any property, including government and school, are considered PUBLIC EASEMENTS and not truly the property of said facility.

    for examply, the drive into the school would have to be paved by a private contracter, with bids being made as to who gets the job. however, the sidewalk is maintained normally by the dept of transportation or local municipality....

    you're allowed to exercise your 1A rights on public easement, or sidewalks, whereas you can be asked to leave and removed for exercising same rights on the actual property....

  9. #23
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  10. #24
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    It's only a blemish if he broke the law.
    It's very possible he didn't

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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array HK Dan's Avatar
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    In Iowa it's "On school grounds". If the sidewalk is considered to be part of the school's lot, you're screwed. When I walk my dog I walk across the street from the school, 'Peaceable Journey' or not.

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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    I saw the video - he was on the sidewalk, using the school as a background for a story he was taping on the violence in that school.
    Is this vid online somewhere?

    (mods, thanks for the merge. I missed this one)
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array rabywk's Avatar
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    If he was on the sidewalk, can the administrator that called it in, be charged with filing a false police report?
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  14. #28
    Member Array Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Yes, I see you've made the assumption that school facility does not include the grounds. Your assumption is incorrect.

    You would do well to read F.S. 790.115:


    We know that the reporter was not:

    1. Attending a firearms program at the school.
    2. Carrying a cased firearm to a career center that has a firearms training range, or
    3. Carrying in his vehicle.

    So he's in violation of 790.115.

    Matt

    You would do well to read a little further ;-) :

    (e) The penalties of this subsection shall not apply to persons licensed under s. 790.06. Persons licensed under s. 790.06 shall be punished as provided in s. 790.06(12), except that a licenseholder who unlawfully discharges a weapon or firearm on school property as prohibited by this subsection commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

    Regardless - several people are making assumptions that we don't make in this country. The most important (in this case) is the assumption of guilt regarding trespass. Unless the individual was actually on school grounds then the entire argument of what is defined as a "facility" is moot. Incidentally, most courts recognize a fence as a delineating line for purpose of trespass, unless it is otherwise posted and reasonably unambiguous. I would urge everyone to view the video. Here is the link:

    http://www.local10.com/news/14411684/detail.html

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
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    I disarm everyday when I pick up my boy from school.

    The law sucks, but it is the law. FOR NOW.

    If he truely was on grounds while armed then he was in the wrong. The point of how or when they knew about the gun is mute. That is a different matter... or hearing.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    You would do well to read a little further ;-) :

    (e) The penalties of this subsection shall not apply to persons licensed under s. 790.06. Persons licensed under s. 790.06 shall be punished as provided in s. 790.06(12), except that a licenseholder who unlawfully discharges a weapon or firearm on school property as prohibited by this subsection commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    Correct - those who are licensed are punished as provided in 790.06.

    Which means that the prohibition in 790.115 absolutely applies to CWFL holders (as I noted in my original post), but a CWFL holder isn't charged with a felony for mere possession, but rather a misdemeanor.

    Your previous assertion that one may lawfully carry on school property is absolutely incorrect.

    Whether or not the reported was on school grounds when asked to leave is a completely different issue.

    Matt
    Matt
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    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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